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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 9/12/23 at 8:44 pm to
Posted by TitusCrow
Member since Mar 2020
66 posts
Posted on 9/12/23 at 8:44 pm to
Curious about that "600,000 plot" figure. I read that they are building a National Military Cemetery that will eventually reach 100 hectares. I'm not in the cemetery business, so I don't honestly know how many plots you can fit in a hectare. I did look at Arlington National Cemetery as an analogue, and found that during a 1991 expansion, they cleared a 5.3 hectare parking lot to create space for about 9000 sites, so let's round that up to 1700 per hectare. That would come out to about 170,000 plots?
Posted by StormyMcMan
USA
Member since Oct 2016
3762 posts
Posted on 9/12/23 at 8:50 pm to
quote:

They’re attacking well prepared defensive works, without air support, through thick minefields, that the Russians can remine remotely,


Not saying they aren't taking losses just that they haven't lost 71k in 4 months

quote:

they don’t have the artillery the Russians have, and they don’t have the ammunition reserves the Russian have,


The Russians are actually complaining about the same issue now (not enough ammo) but agree in principle that Ukraine is strapped for ammo

quote:

most of which they can not service themselves, and their men, the new recruits, have undergone inadequate accelerated training courses, and if they were NATO led, they were taught by men who may have seen low intensity fighting, but who have with no practical experience fighting a conventional war. Based on this alone, casualty figures will be bad.


Take out NATO and you would be talking about Russia

quote:

they’re building a national war cemetery outside of the Kiev with 600,000 plots


It's also been put on hold so they can examine the mass Graves on the site from the USSR so they aren't in a rush to build it

quote:

They’re also preparing for another round of mobilization, one which will eliminate exceptions for minimally fit individuals

Also Russia

quote:

women are being pulled in for non combat roles starting in October, IIRC, to free up men for the battlefield.


This is different from Russia but probably has more to do with population size

Point is Russia has literally most of the same issues you say are leading to mass casualties for the Ukrainians. I'm looking at this info and saying that if Ukraine were having these absolutely massive losses (71 KIA would mean roughly 280k casualties in 4 months) this front line would be moving just due to human waves overwhelming positions or Russia pushing through in the areas they are counterattacking. It's not happening for either side which is why I don't think we are seeing WWI level death on either side (and 71k in 4 months would be more than the allies in the entirety of the Normandy campaign in WWII). Those numbers just don't reflect the current stalemate we are seeing.

Again not saying losses aren't happening they just aren't to the level Russia claims it to be and they are suffering in the ballpark of 1:1 (id wager somewhere between .8:1 to 1:.8) on casualties.
This post was edited on 9/12/23 at 9:01 pm
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
2639 posts
Posted on 9/12/23 at 9:05 pm to
OSINTtechnical
@Osinttechnical

Appears that Ukrainian forces have successfully hit the Sevastopol Shipyard drydocks this morning, likely occupied by a Russian Kilo-class sub and Ropucha landing ship.

Twitter
Posted by WestCoastAg
Member since Oct 2012
145311 posts
Posted on 9/12/23 at 9:06 pm to
quote:

and they’re building a national war cemetery outside of the Kiev with 600,000 plots
well who could possibly argue against this
Posted by WestCoastAg
Member since Oct 2012
145311 posts
Posted on 9/12/23 at 9:16 pm to
quote:

Airsoft nerds in that pic fighting a war lol
why is the poli board laughing at deaths? I thought they were the anti war board
This post was edited on 9/12/23 at 9:17 pm
Posted by Lima Whiskey
Member since Apr 2013
19475 posts
Posted on 9/12/23 at 9:55 pm to
quote:

(71 KIA would mean roughly 280k casualties in 4 months)


He actually says casualties

quote:


Point is Russia has literally most of the same issues you say are leading to mass casualties for the Ukrainians.


The Ukrainians are inflicting outsized casualties on the Russians, while attacking, against an enemy with a substantial advantage in artillery, and they're doing it without air support, while at the same time, dealing with an enemy who has a lot of rotory and fixed wing aircraft? And they're doing it all with men who have limited training?

quote:

quote:

Training
Take out NATO and you would be talking about Russia


To a degree, the Russians hadn't fought a serious war since Chechnya, Georgia was short and one sided. And Russia rotated a lot of officers through Syria for training purposes. The advantage they have over us, is that they've been able to incorporate the lessons they've learned in Ukraine into their training, they haven't needed to compress the training for their recruits like the Ukrainians have, and that they never lost their focus on conventional war, the way we did over the last twenty years. One of the complaints you saw from the Ukrainian recruits about their NATO training was that it was all based on our experience in Afghanistan, and so it wasn't useful, and in some cases, it was potentially dangerous.


quote:

quote:

Mass mobilization


Also Russia


They were very reluctant to mobilize their reservists last year, and they've repeatedly said that regulars are enough at this point. They could change their mind, but their strategy appears to be built around balancing the needs of the civilian economy, with the realities of the war. You can see that in how they fight, they rely heavily on firepower, and they're careful with their men, they avoid taking casualties. It shows up in policy too, the age band exemption for IT workers was extended in an effort to protect the industry, and they've tried to make life as normal as possible for ordinary people. Meanwhile Kiev is conscripting all military aged men, regardless of trade, and not just reservists, for the war effort.

quote:

This is different from Russia but probably has more to do with population size


It's certainly a compounding factor, and the Russians ground forces have grown a lot in total size of the last year.
Posted by Lima Whiskey
Member since Apr 2013
19475 posts
Posted on 9/12/23 at 10:09 pm to
quote:

I read that they are building a National Military Cemetery that will eventually reach 100 hectares


LINK

quote:

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Posted by OGtigerfan87
North La
Member since Feb 2019
3425 posts
Posted on 9/12/23 at 10:56 pm to
Your last paragraph is laughable
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
9744 posts
Posted on 9/12/23 at 11:33 pm to
Russia holds Sevastopol after Ukrainian missile and drone attack
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
2639 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 2:47 am to
British Defence Intelligence
INTELLIGENCE UPDATE
UPDATE ON UKRAINE 13 September 2023

Elements of Russia's new 25th Combined Arms Army (25 CAA) have highly likely deployed to Ukraine for the first time. The formation is likely focused on Luhansk Oblast in the north-east of the country.

As recently as August 2023, recruitment adverts for 25 CAA claimed it would only deploy to Ukraine from December 2023.

It is likely that units have been rushed into action early partly because Russia continues to grapple with an over-stretched force along the front and Ukraine continues its counter-offensive on three different axes. However, there is also a realistic possibility that Russia will attempt to use parts of 25 CAA to regenerate an uncommitted reserve force in the theatre to provide commanders with more operational flexibility.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
18026 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 4:53 am to
Holy cow.

quote:

Russian sources confirm that a submarine Kilo class "Rostov-on-Don" and a large landing ship "Minsk" have been damaged during the Sevastopol attack last night

B-237 "Rostov-on-Don" is an advanced attack submarine of the Russian Navy of the "Kilo" class.

The cost is $300 million, launched in 2014.


There's also likely substantial damage to the dry rock, which is the Russian navy's only large maintenance facility for the Black Sea fleet.

Also, Russia can't replace those vessels, because Turkey keeps the Bosphorus closed to warships during conflict.

The balance of power in the Black Sea shifted a bit last. Ukrainian shipping has a better chance of success, and the citizens of Odessa are safer in their homes.
This post was edited on 9/13/23 at 5:48 am
Posted by Coeur du Tigre
It was just outside of Barstow...
Member since Nov 2008
1507 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 4:58 am to
"Former Austrian Foreign Minister and close friend of Putin Karin Kneissl moved to Russia and transported her ponies to St. Petersburg. Her ponies were delivered on a Russian Defense Ministry plane.

The VIP ponies flew to Russia with a stopover in Syria aboard the military transport aircraft of the Russian Defense Ministry. The animals were delivered to the Russian Federation instead of the Russian military." LINK

She knows too much about the current very numerous Russian assets in Austria. Going forward, she needs to stay away from tall buildings. Probably won't help though.

.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
18026 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 5:04 am to
I suppose the attack on Sevastopol last night means imminent nuclear war, right?
Posted by RollTide1987
Augusta, GA
Member since Nov 2009
65147 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 5:46 am to
quote:

B-237 "Rostov-on-Don" is an advanced attack submarine of the Russian Navy of the "Kilo" class.



It's a diesel submarine. They're a dime a dozen.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
18026 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 6:09 am to
Hmm. If they cost 300 million each, my math says that that would be $3.6 billion for a dozen.

Also, how many subs does Russia have in the Black Sea?
Posted by Coeur du Tigre
It was just outside of Barstow...
Member since Nov 2008
1507 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 6:09 am to
quote:

It's a diesel submarine. They're a dime a dozen.


Actually, they're $3.6 billion per dozen. But due to the sanctions, Russia doesn't have the ability to replace it at any cost. And speaking of irreplaceable assets, let's not forget about that dry dock - the only one the Ru Navy has in the Black Sea.
This post was edited on 9/13/23 at 6:15 am
Posted by RollTide1987
Augusta, GA
Member since Nov 2009
65147 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 6:42 am to
Between the 636 and 877 types, the Russians have 33 kilo-class submarines currently active in their fleet. They have nine more of the "advanced" 636.3 submarine type.
Posted by Athanatos
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
8141 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 6:44 am to
The dry docks are a big deal. Depending on what they have in the region for pulling ships out of the water, dry docks, railways, graving docks, it could severely comprise Russia's ability to repair damaged vessels, and not just those from battle damages, but also the regular wear and tear of operation.
Posted by StormyMcMan
USA
Member since Oct 2016
3762 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 6:51 am to
quote:

they haven't needed to compress the training for their recruits like the Ukrainians have


Yes they actually have. The mobiks were hitting the front lines within weeks last year.

quote:

They were very reluctant to mobilize their reservists last year, and they've repeatedly said that regulars are enough at this point. They could change their mind, but their strategy appears to be built around balancing the needs of the civilian economy, with the realities of the war. You can see that in how they fight, they rely heavily on firepower, and they're careful with their men, they avoid taking casualties. It shows up in policy too, the age band exemption for IT workers was extended in an effort to protect the industry, and they've tried to make life as normal as possible for ordinary people. Meanwhile Kiev is conscripting all military aged men, regardless of trade, and not just reservists, for the war effort.


The IT exception is so the industry doesn't collapse as most left during the first mobilization

Otherwise you are just turning a blind eye
Russia is trying to keep its army going by raising the age for military call-ups by 5 years, with some reservists able to be mobilized at 70

Russia extends eligibility for military call-up by at least five years

Not age, but also related
Quick citizenship for foreigners who fight for Russia in Ukraine: Vladimir Putin's new plan

ETA
And as for avoiding casualties
Russian Mercenaries’ Human Wave Tactics Push Back Ukrainian Troops In Soledar

So yes Russia is taking lots of casualties, on par with that of Ukraine but neither side has lost 71k in 4 months
This post was edited on 9/13/23 at 6:55 am
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
2639 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 7:07 am to
The Minsk is a Ropucha class landing ship built in Poland for the USSR.
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