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Started By
Message
re: Americans Killed/Kidnapped in Israel
Posted on 10/8/23 at 9:25 am to stout
Posted on 10/8/23 at 9:25 am to stout
quote:
Unreal how people can completely lack any compassion and humanity
And that applies to the Israelis too. The way they treat people in Gaza in pretty sickening. They don’t even have clean drinking water over there. All because of the Israeli land/sea/air blockade which is illegal….no supplies can get in.
Doesn’t excuse what hamas did, but let’s not act like the Israelis are all innocent and dindu nuffin. It’s primarily they’re fault and always has been
2
Posted on 10/8/23 at 9:30 am to Ribbed
Gaza is basically just a city. Very small area. Put in the new special ops guys for practice sessions and take out most of Hamas in a month.
Posted on 10/8/23 at 9:35 am to Spaniard
quote:
When will a video come out of some scary guys in ninja outfits cutting off a guys head making gurgling sounds to make the public scared again ?
What about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq ? Maybe some more of that anthrax white powder sent through the mail ?
It's the same old playbook over and over and over again. Every twenty years more or less they need more of our kids blood as a sacrifice to Moloch and they will get it because the brainwash is complete.
I'm very much an Isolationist and don't think we should be running around getting into wars. That being said ...
Lots of heads were actually cut off.
Iraq absolutely had WMDs.
Just because we should NOT have gotten involved in Iraq (or if we did, we should have leveled the place and then left) doesn't mean there were no WMDs.
Just because WMDs were used as justification to do something we shouldn't have doesn't mean there were no WMDs.
This is how information operations and propaganda work. Twist issues up into such complex balls that people can't really process/understand so they'll reduce/simplify them into digestible bites that are often wrong (but are the wrong you want them to be).
This works in both directions.
Posted on 10/8/23 at 9:39 am to Burt Orangello
quote:
I'm very much an Isolationist and don't think we should be running around getting into wars. That being said ...
Lots of heads were actually cut off.
Iraq absolutely had WMDs.
Just because we should NOT have gotten involved in Iraq (or if we did, we should have leveled the place and then left) doesn't mean there were no WMDs.
Just because WMDs were used as justification to do something we shouldn't have doesn't mean there were no WMDs.
This is how information operations and propaganda work. Twist issues up into such complex balls that people can't really process/understand so they'll reduce/simplify them into digestible bites that are often wrong (but are the wrong you want them to be).
This works in both directions.
Either this dude is a really good bullshitter, or he knows what's up in the middle east.
Posted on 10/8/23 at 9:41 am to Boodis Man
quote:I'm done with this attitude. Gunning down old women and kidnapping civilians has destroyed any chance of reasoning.
Doesn’t excuse what hamas did, but let’s not act like the Israelis are all innocent and dindu nuffin. It’s primarily they’re fault and always has been
and it's: their
you dumbfrick
Posted on 10/8/23 at 9:42 am to TDTOM
Iraq did not have any viable nuclear program. Nor did it have the
quantities of chemical weapons claimed by the Bush Administration.
quantities of chemical weapons claimed by the Bush Administration.
Posted on 10/8/23 at 9:46 am to Bamafig
quote:
Let’s see…you paid a ransom for kidnapees, and now more people are kidnapped. Hmmm
It's almost like a bad orange man under 91 indictments warned about this.
Posted on 10/8/23 at 9:57 am to Jockomo
Israel doesn’t care one bit about Americans being killed. In fact, they do it themselves.
Posted on 10/8/23 at 9:57 am to Jockomo
This changes the calculus. My position on this was that we have issues at home, and that Israel and Hamas can settle this on their own. With Americans involved you have to go get them. The problem is that, to my understanding, the HUMINT capabilities of the CIA have dwindled considerably. It's going to be very difficult to find these Americans without people on the ground, that know people, that know other people, that can lead you to them. You can't do this with satellite imagery and SIGINT.
Posted on 10/8/23 at 10:06 am to VOR
quote:
Iraq did not have any viable nuclear program. Nor did it have the
quantities of chemical weapons claimed by the Bush Administration.
This is a great example of what I'm talking about. The implication is that we should not have gone to war in Iraq, therefore the reasons for going to war in Iraq were bad.
No, overall we shouldn't have gone to war (like we did) in Iraq.
Yes, SOME of the reasons for going to war (like we did) in Iraq were flawed.
No, not ALL of the reasons for going to war (like we did) in Iraq were flawed.
There are OTHER reasons, outside of Iraq's nuclear program and/or WMDs, why we shouldn't have gone to war (like we did) in Iraq.
Lumping everything together is reductionist/simplification at its finest, so that a complex issue can be comprehended by the less-than-informed.
The same dynamic is in play with the Israel situation. It's highly complex and the vast majority of people don't know shite about shite, so it's reduced to "Israel good, Palis bad" or vice versa. There's a LOT more to it than that.
Yes, Iraq had WMDs and lots of them. No, we shouldn't have gone to war (like we did).
No, Israel isn't our friend and no, they aren't blameless in this situation.
With regard to the immediately current events, yes, Israel is well within their rights to go scorched Earth.
Posted on 10/8/23 at 10:09 am to Jockomo
quote:
Americans Killed/Kidnapped in Israel
This administration will pay billions to get them back and when they return, they'll side with the savages that took them hostage.
Posted on 10/8/23 at 10:12 am to Ribbed
quote:
Exactly. This is about propaganda for escalation. Israel trying to draw us into war. Netanyahu is the most neocon of neocons. But get mad, guys, because American citizens! Go take a look how many Israelis have dual U.S. citizenship.
Yeah I really don't give a shite about that part of it. Upvote enroute.
This post was edited on 10/8/23 at 10:13 am
Posted on 10/8/23 at 10:13 am to POTUS2024
quote:
This changes the calculus. My position on this was that we have issues at home, and that Israel and Hamas can settle this on their own. With Americans involved you have to go get them. The problem is that, to my understanding, the HUMINT capabilities of the CIA have dwindled considerably. It's going to be very difficult to find these Americans without people on the ground, that know people, that know other people, that can lead you to them. You can't do this with satellite imagery and SIGINT.
Well shoot, it was *that* easy to get you to go from "we should stay out of it" to "now we've got to get involved" ...
That's normal and I'm not knocking you for it. I'm pointing it out as an example of how easy it is to get people to take position A or B.
But that's why certain things happen/don't happen, often times intentionally...for that very reason...to get people to shift opinion/position.
As for getting them out, I already made a comment about that. There's no getting them out of Gaza under the current circumstances.
Posted on 10/8/23 at 10:14 am to Ribbed
quote:
Exactly. This is about propaganda for escalation. Israel trying to draw us into war. Netanyahu is the most neocon of neocons. But get mad, guys, because American citizens! Go take a look how many Israelis have dual U.S. citizenship.
This is what the current climate has led us to.
You’re sick.
Posted on 10/8/23 at 10:15 am to Drizzt
quote:
Gaza is basically just a city. Very small area. Put in the new special ops guys for practice sessions and take out most of Hamas in a month.
Did you see this in a movie? Because movies is where that sorta thing happens.
Posted on 10/8/23 at 10:15 am to stout
Looked close and noticed she was shot in the back of her head.
Posted on 10/8/23 at 10:18 am to ninthward
quote:
I'm done with this attitude. Gunning down old women and kidnapping civilians has destroyed any chance of reasoning.
you deny the illegal occupation is the cause of this? and what about all the children the israelis have killed and are currently killing? dumbf***
Posted on 10/8/23 at 10:18 am to Burt Orangello
quote:
This is how information operations and propaganda work. Twist issues up into such complex balls that people can't really process/understand so they'll reduce/simplify them into digestible bites that are often wrong (but are the wrong you want them to be).
This works in both directions.
most people think we're watching a football game.
Posted on 10/8/23 at 10:19 am to Drizzt
quote:
Gaza is basically just a city. Very small area. Put in the new special ops guys for practice sessions and take out most of Hamas in a month.
That's not how it works. At all.
Posted on 10/8/23 at 10:22 am to Boodis Man
quote:
And that applies to the Israelis too. The way they treat people in Gaza in pretty sickening. They don’t even have clean drinking water over there. All because of the Israeli land/sea/air blockade which is illegal….no supplies can get in.
Just makes me want to slaughter a bus stop full of old people. Makes sense.
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