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Started By
Message
re: Bill Vinovich will be the head referee for Super Bowl LVIII
Posted on 1/24/24 at 7:01 pm to Roll Tide Ravens
Posted on 1/24/24 at 7:01 pm to Roll Tide Ravens
Always a good time to remember exactly why that call was such a big deal
quote:
BOSTON (CBS) -- Some time has passed now since the officiating crew in Sunday's NFC Championship Game completely blew a call near the end of regulation. And while nobody disputes how atrocious the missed call was by the officials on the field, I must say, the fallout has been slightly different than I anticipated.
It's been weird. This isn't a scientific measurement by any means, but I have observed two distinct camps. People have generally responded by either saying:
A: Quit crying! Every team deals with bad calls!
or
B: The Saints still had plenty of chances to win the game!
or
C: It's the Saints' fault that they were even in that spot! Blame Sean Payton!
All of that is wrong. I'm here to say that. It's wrong.
0
Posted on 1/24/24 at 7:14 pm to Roll Tide Ravens
He will make sure tScript gets followed properly
Good choice
Good choice
Posted on 1/24/24 at 8:32 pm to 62zip
Walter Sharp
Here’s the link since you obviously didn’t read it. It’s not that he makes the calls, but he has points of emphasis and is the leader of the crew. Below is some stuff that addresses what you said. If he’s assigned to the other game, this isn’t as big of an issue. The NFL has had an image issue with officiating where fans think think the Chiefs benefit from calls in close games. There was a way to avoid this discussion, and they chose not to take it.
Here’s the link since you obviously didn’t read it. It’s not that he makes the calls, but he has points of emphasis and is the leader of the crew. Below is some stuff that addresses what you said. If he’s assigned to the other game, this isn’t as big of an issue. The NFL has had an image issue with officiating where fans think think the Chiefs benefit from calls in close games. There was a way to avoid this discussion, and they chose not to take it.
quote:
In the last three years, Smith has called: 26 unnecessary roughness penalties against home teams 19 unnecessary roughness penalties against road teams The non-Smith NFL average is 12.7% more unnecessary roughness penalties on ROAD teams, but Smith calls 36.8% more unnecessary roughness penalties on HOME teams. 12 roughing the passer penalties against home teams 7 roughing the passer penalties against road teams. But a couple of penalty types stand out: False start: 22 home, 13 road (69% more on the home team) whereas the NFL average this year was 7.6% more on the road team. Holding: 17 home, 10 road (70% more on the home team) whereas the NFL average this year was 17.2% more on the home team. Sure, these Smith penalty stats and the strong results for road teams are eye opening, but is it really his crew calling the AFC Championship? I asked our ref expert Joe Gibbs. His response: Largely, yes. They will swap out a couple of officials, but usually, most of the crew is the same crew the head referee worked with during the season. But people get lost in the thought process of the individuals of the crew. Think of the head referee as the coach or the CEO of a company. He tells his crew what he wants to emphasize, how close he wants things called, and how he wants them to approach their responsibilities.
Posted on 1/24/24 at 8:52 pm to Roll Tide Ravens
quote:
2019 NFC championship game in which Rams cornerback Nickell Robey-Coleman laid a helmet-to-helmet hit on Tommylee Lewis late in the fourth quarter.
Officials did not penalize the hit and the Rams went on to win in overtime.
What the frick are they talking about. The call was pass interference that was missed.
Posted on 1/24/24 at 9:07 pm to WuShock
quote:
Walter Sharp
Here’s the link since you obviously didn’t read it. It’s not that he makes the calls, but he has points of emphasis and is the leader of the crew. Below is some stuff that addresses what you said. If he’s assigned to the other game, this isn’t as big of an issue. The NFL has had an image issue with officiating where fans think think the Chiefs benefit from calls in close games. There was a way to avoid this discussion, and they chose not to take it.
You're absolutely right. I didn't read the entire thing, I read the summary. Reading your update I will again state that it is sloppy journalism.
quote:
Smith has called: 26 unnecessary roughness penalties against home teams 19 unnecessary roughness penalties against road teams
Smith has not called "26 unnecessary roughness penalties against home teams 19 unnecessary roughness penalties against road teams," his crew has. Why not state that it is his crew? Why state that it's him? Sloppy or agenda driven, one or the other.
quote:
12 roughing the passer penalties against home teams 7 roughing the passer penalties against road teams.
Fair enough, those are all his. That being said I still don't see what that proves. Who were the teams and how do their RTP numbers compare to the rest of the League and to each other? Sloppy.
quote:
False start: 22 home, 13 road (69% more on the home team) whereas the NFL average this year was 7.6% more on the road team.
I can pretty much guarantee that not a single one of those is his. Why attribute them to him? Those are his wing officials. Sloppy.
quote:
Holding: 17 home, 10 road (70% more on the home team) whereas the NFL average this year was 17.2% more on the home team.
Some of those are probably his, but the majority would not be. Why call them his? How many were actually his? How many were the umpire's? The wings? The deep wings? Seems like that might be kinda important to know. Sloppy
quote:
Sure, these Smith penalty stats and the strong results for road teams are eye opening, but is it really his crew calling the AFC Championship? I asked our ref expert Joe Gibbs. His response: Largely, yes. They will swap out a couple of officials, but usually, most of the crew is the same crew the head referee worked with during the season.
Ref expert Joe Gibbs? The retired coach who has been out of the League for a decade and a half? That's his "ref expert? Really? Or is it some other Joe Gibbs?
So the expert says they will swap out a couple of the crew but usually it's most of the same crew? Wrong. He is working with 2 of 6, so 2/3 of the crew is not his crew, so he's already missed that part. Also, there is a "referee" on each crew. That is no such thing as a "head referee." Only one of the wings is from his crew, the other is from Clay Martin's crew, so if he wants to discuss false starts, he should also be discussing the false starts called by Clay Martin's crew. The umpire is from Adrian Hill's crew, so it might be a good idea to see what the holding stats are in Adrian Hill's games. His deep wings are from the crews run by Carl Cheffers and Brad Rogers. Did he review the penalty stats for those crews? If not, why not? Sloppy.
I expect better from "ref expert" Joe Gibbs.
quote:
But people get lost in the thought process of the individuals of the crew. Think of the head referee as the coach or the CEO of a company. He tells his crew what he wants to emphasize, how close he wants things called, and how he wants them to approach their responsibilities.
This is partially correct, but whitehats don't tell crews what he wants to emphasize, the NFL handles that. The whitehat doesn't tell his crew "how close he wants things called," the NFL does. Every individual official is graded and "my whitehat told me he wants it done this way" is not an adequate defense when one receives one's grades. So does this clown think (or do you think for that matter) that they are going to sit down and over the course of a few hors worth of pregame that 4 guys new to this referee's crew are going to completely change the way they officiate a football game because he's the "CEO of the crew"? If so then he's even dumber or sloppier than I thought.
Overall, sloppy.
This post was edited on 1/24/24 at 9:37 pm
Posted on 1/24/24 at 9:30 pm to The Boat
quote:
The call was pass interference that was missed.
Three penalties were committed that play. Pass interference, helmet to helmet, as well ad unnecessary roughness. None were called!
Posted on 1/25/24 at 12:53 am to SteelerBravesDawg
quote:
Since you think that you can officiate, go find your nearest high school baseball/football association and sign up.
Someone's vagina is sandy because my facts took a shite all over his argument.
It's just an internet message board, Skippy. Take your hurt feelings to Mommy. Maybe she'll give you a cookie and a kiss on your cheek. There, feel better?
Posted on 1/25/24 at 12:57 am to choupiquesushi
quote:
This may be the most comical post ever on this. The other field officials were all looking at their keys. But I guess you can’t see that from 1800 miles.
Yet, officiating crews in every sport (including the NFL) have done this regularly. I'm sure that those officials had their "keys" as well. I've witnessed this from many varying distances.
BTW, I've attended NFL games at field level and sat court side at NBA games. I completely agree that the view / action is far different from that perspective. That said, someone trained professionally should be able to avoid becoming part of easily the most egregious missed call in NFL playoff history. I think that part of the NFL's problem is grading officials individually and putting together "all star" crews for the playoffs. Grade the crews as a unit, keep them together and use those that graded best collectively.
This post was edited on 1/25/24 at 1:22 am
Posted on 1/25/24 at 7:00 am to mmonro3
quote:
Three penalties were committed that play. Pass interference, helmet to helmet, as well ad unnecessary roughness. None were called!
Absolutely not. Crying about unnecessary roughness is such a pussy way to look at that play. The defender used his forearms and not his helmet anyways.
The missed called was pass interference. That’s what we complained about at the time and what the NFL changed the review rules for. Anything else is revisionist history.
Posted on 1/25/24 at 8:15 am to EastBankTiger
quote:
I think that part of the NFL's problem is grading officials individually and putting together "all star" crews for the playoffs. Grade the crews as a unit, keep them together and use those that graded best collectively.
This I agree with, but when post season crews have a few games to work together when the top folks at each position get a few games together (really the improvements come from post game crew reviews) you get elite crews - the nfl should tweak that process some. It’s amazing what changing one person on a crew can do to their team work and game management - especially when it’s the R or U
Posted on 1/25/24 at 10:47 am to WuShock
quote:
WuShock
You do know that the guy you're responding to is a football official and thus knows the responsibilities/mechanics of every official on the field, right?
You guys act like the white hat is supposed to be omnipresent and know everything at all times. It doesn't work that way. The R is responsible for the QB and the offside tackle of the passer at ALL TIMES.
Here are the responsibilities (keys)of each official on a 7-man crew:
R: Pre-snap position: 12-14 yards behind passer on passer's dominant side.
Keys: passer and offside tackle. He is responsible for action in and around the passer until the pass is out of the passer's hand and he is no longer a passer. He is also responsible for the offside tackle.
U:Pre-snap position: 8-10 yards off of of the LOS in the middle of the field. Keys: Is responsible for the guards and center and action around them. He is also the primary on IDF(Illegal man downfield). Also responsible for spotting the ball after each play.
Both the R and U count the total offense before each snap to make sure that they have 11. If so, the R gives a thumbs up that the U will reciprocate.
HLJ and LJ: Pre-snap position: Straddling the LOS on the sidelines 2 yards off of the field.
Keys: Tackle on their respective side and are also responsible for the Y receiver(slot)/#2 receiver if they are lined up on their side. If they have no Z receiver, then the LJ/HLJ is responsible for the back out of the backfield. Both the HLJ and LJ count the LOS and are responsible to make sure that the formation is legal. They have every spot on the field on a scrimmage play down to the 2 yard line.
SJ/FJ: Pre-snap position: 22-23 yards deep on the sideline 2 yards off of the field and at a 45 degree angle. Keys: Widest receiver(X or Z) on their side all night. Watch for action in and around WR. Primarily watching for DPI/OPI, illegal low blocks, and holding before the pass. Will carry the play to the GL on a breakaway and will get the spot from the 2 and in. Both the SJ and FJ count the defense before each snap, and once they confirm that there are 11 players, they will give a thumbs up along w/the BJ.
BJ: Pre-snap position: 27-30 yards deep in the middle of the field and shaded towards the strong end of the formation. If the formation has no strong side, then he is shaded towards the LJ's (opposite chain side) side of the field. Keys: Depending on formation, either the furthest inside(#3) receiver or the TE. In some cases, in 4-wide on the same side situations, the BJ will get both the #3 and #4 receivers.
This post was edited on 1/25/24 at 11:21 am
Posted on 1/25/24 at 10:49 am to EastBankTiger
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/25/24 at 10:50 am
Posted on 1/25/24 at 10:50 am to EastBankTiger
quote:
I think that part of the NFL's problem is grading officials individually and putting together "all star" crews for the playoffs
This we agree on.
Posted on 1/25/24 at 11:06 am to The Boat
quote:
The defender used his forearms
Most defenders do
quote:
and not his helmet anyways
It absolutely was a helmet to helmet
Posted on 1/25/24 at 11:24 am to mmonro3
Still had nothing to do with the missed call. The missed call was pass interference. The NFL made PI reviewable based on that game and missed call. The article saying helmet to helmet helmet was the missed call is 100% false and not a proper description of what happened.
Posted on 1/25/24 at 7:24 pm to Roll Tide Ravens
quote:
Bill Vinovich.
frick this dude. I hope gets a case of the sudden explosive shits right there on national TV during the coin toss in front of a world wide audience. Couldn't happen to a more deserving person.
Posted on 1/25/24 at 10:11 pm to 62zip
quote:
This is partially correct, but whitehats don't tell crews what he wants to emphasize, the NFL handles that. The whitehat doesn't tell his crew "how close he wants things called," the NFL does.
It sounds like you're saying the NFL can rig a game by giving instructions to the crew on how they want a game called.
Most people that think it is rigged or guided in a preferred outcome by officiating, don't believe that those are rouge refs. They are saying that they are following orders form the League Office.
You're quote above seems to give more credence to those theories.
Posted on 1/25/24 at 10:33 pm to mikesliveisacheater
quote:
It sounds like you're saying the NFL can rig a game by giving instructions to the crew on how they want a game called.
Most people that think it is rigged or guided in a preferred outcome by officiating, don't believe that those are rouge refs. They are saying that they are following orders form the League Office.
You're quote above seems to give more credence to those theories.
To the ignorant, perhaps.
You think the NFL just lets a group of guys get together and call a ballgame however they see fit?
What do you think all of the pre-season and in-season training is for? Why do you think officials are graded for every single call or no-call on every single play of every game if not to instill the standards by which they want the game called?
As an example there is talk every season about what is and is not a catch. They are told by the NFL exactly how they want the rules interpreted and shown hours and hours of video illustrating those interpretations and illustrating both correct and incorrect calls.
How did you think all that was done?
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