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re: Rian Johnson says Empire Strikes Back would have been criticized if it came out today

Posted on 3/29/18 at 9:29 pm to
Posted by Green Chili Tiger
Lurking the Tin Foil Hat Board
Member since Jul 2009
47824 posts
Posted on 3/29/18 at 9:29 pm to
He's correct. It was criticized back then.
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
109673 posts
Posted on 3/29/18 at 9:50 pm to
quote:

He's correct. It was criticized back then.


Yep, but Empire hits all the checkmarks of a competent film. This doesn’t come close to it. There’s no protagonist, there’s no central narrative aside from nihilism, every scene you can fly a 737 through plot holes, and it betrays old characters. Sure the timeline is iffy in Empire, but other than that it was great and critics at the time weren’t expecting something that dark.
Posted by TigerMyth36
River Ridge
Member since Nov 2005
39746 posts
Posted on 3/30/18 at 10:21 am to
quote:

He's correct. It was criticized back then.


Maybe but I don't remember a single complaint. Maybe Gene and Roger but I don't remember their review. Every human I knew had their head exploded with the big reveal and I didn't know a single person who didn't love it.

Probably the only negative was younger folks weren't used to the serial formula of not finishing a story so the cliffhanger left them wanting more.
Posted by Scoob
Near Exxon
Member since Jun 2009
20522 posts
Posted on 3/30/18 at 11:59 pm to
quote:

He's correct. It was criticized back then.

I was 12 when Empire came out, and there were things I didn't expect (and didn't like).

Didn't like Vader dad AT ALL, because Vader was such a potent villain that I wanted Luke to one day defeat... the Emperor wasn't a factor in Star Wars, so Vader was the Big Bad.

Didn't like the ending, since Han was my favorite. I hated that he got beat and frozen, then taken back to Jabba.
And regarding the ending, I really didn't like the utter cliffhanger aspect of it. Remember, this was 1980, the next movie was 3 years from now. I had to wait 3 years for my hero to get rescued.

But those were criticisms from an impatient child... that was going to effect my fantasizing about the continued adventures of Han and Chewie (since he might be dead).

In the context of the entire trilogy, Empire was great. It showed the might of the Empire, introduced the Emperor, and deepened the story to a level that would create the greater SW mythos.

I get that Ep 8, as the middle movie, is supposed to be the darkest one, leaving the heroes defeated and desperate (as Empire did). And it does do that. But I can't see the path to victory, or even the final resolve (Empire showed Luke with his new hand, standing with Leia, overlooking the Galaxy from afar, as Lando and Chewie departed in search of Han's whereabouts). There is no similar analog in TLJ, no greater power to be faced (we see that Luke had to defeat not Vader, but the Emperor; he had to redeem Vader). Snoke's gone, Kylo is now in charge- this is like if Vader had killed the Emperor during Empire. How do you then redeem him?
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