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re: MBB Portal Targets List
Posted on 4/18/24 at 2:33 pm to mmcgrath
Posted on 4/18/24 at 2:33 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
You sound like alt26 complaining that players like Curtis Givins haven had the career that some Wade players did.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I've NEVER said that
Falsehoods aside, here's my position on McMahon:
He did not inherit a good situation
On paper, the hire wasn't bad. He arguably had the best resume of all of the SEC coaches hired in that cycle except for Mike White who, himself, was largely an average major-conf. coach.
I thought he did a solid job rebuilding the roster in his first offseason. Particularly his HS recruiting given he had been on the school for such a short period of time and he likely had minimal prior relationships with top 100 players because he generally wasn't recruiting them at Murry St.
I thought with HS class, combined with what everyone who follows college basketball for a living felt was a decent transfer class, combined with a returning layer, he would have a solid first season. Not comparable to Wade's prior four years. Not even an NCAA Tournament team. But a team that would be competitive and, if all the cards fell right, could possibly find their way into NCAAT consideration. Those expectations weren't unreasonable because that was what many who cover college basketball thought.
Instead, once SEC play started he led the team to one of the worst SEC performances in the history of the program. One where LSU wasn't even competitive. There is quite a difference between taking a step back because of issues outside of his control and being absolutely horrible. He lost the benefit of the doubt that season because....
It has become commonplace for programs to lose a large portion of their roster in the midst of a coaching change. Yet, there have been multiple programs/coaches that have had far better success than a 2-16 conf record despite being forced to overhaul their roster.
This season LSU looked like the exact same team from last year until SEC play started. Then the team improved, culminating with the wins at USC and vs. Kentucky...before ending the season on a back slide. Finishing with a "postseason" game that fully displayed how much apathy is associated with the program now.
There is more reason to be optimistic for next year than there was going into last offseason. But that optimism is guarded (not just for LSU, but most teams) because at least half of the roster will be new.
Overall, I don't think McMahon has done a terrible job recruiting. Both from the HS ranks and transfers. It hasn't quite been comparable to teams like Kentucky, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee. But not awful. So I lean towards the issue being more in the coaching department. In other words, based upon what I've seen, I'm not convinced McMahon is a "good coach".
HOWEVER, that doesn't mean I'm tuning out like most fans. Nor does it mean I hope McMahon fails. I WANT him to succeed. I WANT to say my opinion of his coaching ability was wrong because, believe it or not, my sense of self worth is not tied to favorable opinions on an anonymous message board forum. I just like the discussion. But until he actually produces noteworthy results on the court the skepticism will remain.
3
Posted on 4/18/24 at 2:45 pm to mmcgrath
Half of players not playing yet is the norm every year. If McMahon can't handle this, he shouldn't be the head coach.
A poster on this board said that McMahon was paying prospects equally [top 7 or 8 if I remember correctly]. That is not what happens in professional sports or in a free market system. That is not a political comment. That is the way America works.
A poster on this board said that McMahon was paying prospects equally [top 7 or 8 if I remember correctly]. That is not what happens in professional sports or in a free market system. That is not a political comment. That is the way America works.
Posted on 4/18/24 at 4:57 pm to Alt26
Hey Alt, Skepticism is understandable even acceptable. Doing everything possible to subvert the program IS NOT ACCEAPTABLE. And what you need tounderstand that denigrating the abilities of the coach at every opportunity does in fact subvert the program? I'm not saying it's your job or anyone else's to recruit for McMahon, but when did it become your job to harm the program?
What I and I believe most others are saying is to let the process play out. As long as progress on the court is on display, I'm willing to be patient. Only infants and juveniles demand instant gratification.
What I and I believe most others are saying is to let the process play out. As long as progress on the court is on display, I'm willing to be patient. Only infants and juveniles demand instant gratification.
This post was edited on 4/18/24 at 6:45 pm
Posted on 4/18/24 at 5:09 pm to Alt26
quote:
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I've NEVER said that
You literally made a list of McMahon's recruits (including this year's class) and compared them to a list of Wade's recruits in his first 3 years and said that their college careers didn't match up. It was in the Vyctorius Miller thread. You got called out for it.
quote:
Overall, I don't think McMahon has done a terrible job recruiting. Both from the HS ranks and transfers. It hasn't quite been comparable to teams like Kentucky, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee. But not awful. So I lean towards the issue being more in the coaching department. In other words, based upon what I've seen, I'm not convinced McMahon is a "good coach".
This is where your logic falls off a cliff. Those teams had better recruiting classes for the last 2 years. But, MORE IMPORTANTLY, those teams started off with BETTER ROSTERS that were built up from years prior.
Now LSU was a .500 team this past year. That means that we jumped ahead of half of the league that were light years ahead of LSU just 24 months ago. Yet you guys are disappointed that LSU didn't leap past the top half of the league already? JFC.
This post was edited on 4/18/24 at 5:20 pm
Posted on 4/18/24 at 5:19 pm to tigersham
Davon Barnes committed to Ole Miss
Marques Warrick committed to Mizzou
Marques Warrick committed to Mizzou
This post was edited on 4/18/24 at 5:21 pm
Posted on 4/19/24 at 7:35 am to Alt26
You may have said some good things in that wall of text, but Holy shite--you must have nothing but time on your hands!
This post was edited on 4/19/24 at 7:36 am
Posted on 4/19/24 at 9:06 am to Tigershine
quote:
Hey Alt, Skepticism is understandable even acceptable. Doing everything possible to subvert the program IS NOT ACCEAPTABLE. And what you need tounderstand that denigrating the abilities of the coach at every opportunity does in fact subvert the program? I'm not saying it's your job or anyone else's to recruit for McMahon, but when did it become your job to harm the program?
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but fans on a message board aren't that important. Certainly not enough to "subvert" a program. If that were the case then EVERY program in America (expect maybe UConn at the moment) would perpetually be "subverted" because they have fans on message boards being critical of players/coaches.
This is nothing more than a discussion forum. That's it. We all share the common bond of being a fan of LSU sports. But many of us hold differing opinions. My opinion is I'm not sold on McMahon being a good HC because he's done nothing at LSU (to date) to prove such. I don't think so highly of myself to believe that some prospective player is thinking "Well, I was going to go to LSU. But some anonymous guy online doesn't think they have a very good coach. So I'm going to go elsewhere"
What actually harms the program is people not showing up to games or giving much of a shite...which I can tell you first hand is largely the case often being one of the 5k - 6k fans at the game. That's not because those folks were planning to go to a game until they saw a negative posts on a message board. It's because the program/performance has provided them with little desire to show up.
quote:
What I and I believe most others are saying is to let the process play out. As long as progress on the court is on display, I'm willing to be patient. Only infants and juveniles demand instant gratification.
In a different era of basketball I would agree with you. But the game has COMPLETELY changed with the transfer rules. Thus, your perspective has to change with it. It does not take multiple years to build a competitive team anymore. It just doesn't It can happen in the span of literally one off season. Hopefully that happens for LSU this season in the same fashion it occurred with teams like South Carolina and Florida this past season. But until it actually happens there is a legitimate basis to be skeptical.
You can both want the coach/program to succeed AND have doubts he can.
Posted on 4/19/24 at 9:12 am to Alt26
So you don't believe recruits read these boards? Or perhaps you don't think supposed fans acting like arsehats has any effect at all on these recruits? I tend to think that potential recruits like to read from supportive fans and not some jerk denigrating the coach at every opportunity.
Maybe the assinine comments do not have a direct effect on recruiting but how can you deny that it gets into the subconcious?
Maybe the assinine comments do not have a direct effect on recruiting but how can you deny that it gets into the subconcious?
Posted on 4/19/24 at 9:15 am to Tigershine
quote:
What I and I believe most others are saying is to let the process play out. As long as progress on the court is on display, I'm willing to be patient. Only infants and juveniles demand instant gratification.
I won't even address the Subvert the program statement because its to dumb. Fans are allowed to be critical. You don't have to act like everything is fine to trick recruits. Damn it. I addressed it.
What drives me up a wall about opinions like this quote is that some fans want everyone to act like the basketball program and coach have no faults and people should be patient while others on this board are criticizing Jay Johnson on his coaching abilities less than a year removed from a NC. My point isn't that Jay shouldn't be criticized but more that every coach and program should feel the pressure from fans when they are not performing to the standard.
I believe in CMM's ability to develop players and I think he has done a decent job at recruiting. I am cautiously optimistic that we take another step forward next season.
Posted on 4/19/24 at 9:18 am to Tigershine
quote:
So you don't believe recruits read these boards? Or perhaps you don't think supposed fans acting like arsehats has any effect at all on these recruits? I tend to think that potential recruits like to read from supportive fans and not some jerk denigrating the coach at every opportunity.
Maybe the assinine comments do not have a direct effect on recruiting but how can you deny that it gets into the subconcious?
My question is why don't people have this same energy when people criticize Jay or BK or even Mulkey? Why are they allowed to be criticized when fans believe they make wrong decisions but CMM is treated like a delicate flower that will wilt if it gets too much sun?
Posted on 4/19/24 at 10:09 am to Bert Macklin FBI
quote:quote:
So you don't believe recruits read these boards? Or perhaps you don't think supposed fans acting like arsehats has any effect at all on these recruits? I tend to think that potential recruits like to read from supportive fans and not some jerk denigrating the coach at every opportunity.
Maybe the assinine comments do not have a direct effect on recruiting but how can you deny that it gets into the subconcious?
No. I don't. Players don't care that much about it. Their concerns are different than fans. As is their outlook. Now, more than ever, in the NIL landscape. Take for example, Missouri. They were awful last season. I'm sure many in their fanbase were critical of their HC. They have 5 four star players signed. Georgia Tech sucked last season. Given they haven't been good for a long time now I suspect their fans have long been critical of the program. They have a top 15 recruiting class. Hell, McMahon and LSU have the #11 ranked class. Is that because he's overcome the subversion efforts of the fans? Or that recruits simply don't care?
quote:
What drives me up a wall about opinions like this quote is that some fans want everyone to act like the basketball program and coach have no faults and people should be patient while others on this board are criticizing Jay Johnson on his coaching abilities less than a year removed from a NC. My point isn't that Jay shouldn't be criticized but more that every coach and program should feel the pressure from fans when they are not performing to the standard.
Yep. It's bizarre. I can't remember a coach at LSU who accomplished so little, yet had such fervent support from a small, but very diligent, group
Posted on 4/19/24 at 10:56 am to Bert Macklin FBI
quote:How many posts criticizing those coaches do you see on the recruiting board?
My question is why don't people have this same energy when people criticize Jay or BK or even Mulkey? Why are they allowed to be criticized when fans believe they make wrong decisions but CMM is treated like a delicate flower that will wilt if it gets too much sun?
Also, every criticism from the asshats are complaining that the program wasn't fixed immediately. Like you can start from ground zero in the SEC and win the league the next season.
Posted on 4/19/24 at 11:18 am to mmcgrath
quote:
How many posts criticizing those coaches do you see on the recruiting board?
Doesn't matter where the criticism happens or how the criticism is presented, the response is always the same "Wade basically got us the death penalty (Reality: a 1 scholarship reduction) so we shouldn't expect anything for years." I say in all my posts that I believe in CMM and its confusing to me why the people that supposedly also believe in him refuse to believe we take a step forward next year. But when I say we need to continue to grow and be better next season, all I get in response is essentially "WHOAH don't be crazy, just fielding a team is a win in our book."
*I am aware that I am exaggerating, I don't need anyone to post that no one said these exact words. But the sentiment is that expecting anything better than we got this past season somehow makes me unreasonable and a bad fan.*
quote:
Also, every criticism from the asshats are complaining that the program wasn't fixed immediately.
I don't think most say that. Sure there are always some idiots but the vast majority say that its year 3 so its time to compete. No one is expecting a NC but to expect to make a 68 team tournament or at least be in the convo is not unreasonable.
What confuses me is why those that supposedly support CMM don't believe in him enough to think this is possible.
This post was edited on 4/19/24 at 11:20 am
Posted on 4/19/24 at 11:31 am to Bert Macklin FBI
quote:All of the Wade asshats say that. Last year they trotted out Missouri as the Golden Rule for new coaches rebuilding programs. Alt still brings them up in spite of their absolute collapse this year.
I don't think most say that.
They want immediate success and totally fantasize about their former coach crush.
We had a post about Vyktorius Miller committing to LSU and the Wade Brigade came in bitching about McMahon. They are annoying. I miss the days when the recruiting board had moderators who gave a damn about LSU.
quote:And this is an example of dishonest bullshite. Everyone know that to make the tourney out of a major conference like the SEC you need to be in the top 35 teams nationally. So expecting that is steep considering where we were 24 months ago. And yet coach has us expecting to be right on that bubble already. The Wade Brigade were upset the LSU didn't get in this year.
No one is expecting a NC but to expect to make a 68 team tournament
This post was edited on 4/19/24 at 11:35 am
Posted on 4/19/24 at 11:39 am to mmcgrath
The issue is that the McMen are equally as annoying as the Wade Brigade. Yes there are a few that are very annoying about WW, won't shut up about him, and won't accept anything that CMM does. That doesn't mean that anyone who criticizes CMM at all falls into that camp. There are just as many (still only a few in number but just as loud) that hate WW, won't shut up about him, and yell at the clouds any time anyone expects anything out of the basketball program.
You say its annoying that they point out MIzzous instant success? Its equally annoying to act like turnarounds like that are not possible and we need to wait 5 years to be competitive.
Again I ask you, if you believe in CMM as much as you say, why don't you believe he can take another step forward next year and make the tournament? Or at least be on the bubble?
I believe that he can and its what I expect to happen. I'm not afraid to post it on the board either. But for some reason, those that support the coach the most refuse to believe he can take another step forward and do better next season.
You say its annoying that they point out MIzzous instant success? Its equally annoying to act like turnarounds like that are not possible and we need to wait 5 years to be competitive.
Again I ask you, if you believe in CMM as much as you say, why don't you believe he can take another step forward next year and make the tournament? Or at least be on the bubble?
I believe that he can and its what I expect to happen. I'm not afraid to post it on the board either. But for some reason, those that support the coach the most refuse to believe he can take another step forward and do better next season.
This post was edited on 4/19/24 at 11:43 am
Posted on 4/19/24 at 11:49 am to mmcgrath
quote:
And this is an example of dishonest bullshite. Everyone know that to make the tourney out of a major conference like the SEC you need to be in the top 35 teams nationally. So expecting that is steep considering where we were 24 months ago. And yet coach has us expecting to be right on that bubble already. The Wade Brigade were upset the LSU didn't get in this year.
Already? ITS YEAR 3!!!! This is what I am talking about, you cliam to support the guy but refuse to believe in him. He isn't a make a wish kid. His job is to win basketball games. In year 3, he should have a team that can at least be on the bubble of the tournament. I believe he can do that. But you apparently don't.
And Florida made the tourney at 24-11, State made it at 21-13, and A&M made it at 20-14. The SEC had 8 teams make the tournament. Being in the top 8 of the conference isn't some wild fantasy. Hell we were 3-4 winnable games this past season from being in real consideration for the tournament. Just a few bounces go our way and we are in it. But somehow you don't think that's possible next year.
You believe in CMM SOOOO MUCH that that you go to war at every criticism but you don't believe he can make us better. How does that add up?
This post was edited on 4/19/24 at 11:56 am
Posted on 4/19/24 at 12:01 pm to Bert Macklin FBI
quote:Missouri's success was because they had a 1st round pick on the roster already and no NOA. Yet as soon as that 1st round pick left they had a worse year than LSU had in year 1. So how rebuilt was that program?
You say its annoying that they point out MIzzous instant success? Its equally annoying to act like turnarounds like that are not possible and we need to wait 5 years to be competitive.
quote:Pretty sure I am saying that they will be on the bubble. I think the goal of 10 SEC wins plus a better OOC will put us right there.
Again I ask you, if you believe in CMM as much as you say, why don't you believe he can take another step forward next year and make the tournament? Or at least be on the bubble?
I think the bigger jump will come the year after as the current recruiting class becomes Sophomores and we have that guard group of Vyctorius, CG3, and MW3 leading the way with some talented bigs.
Posted on 4/19/24 at 12:12 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
And this is an example of dishonest bullshite. Everyone know that to make the tourney out of a major conference like the SEC you need to be in the top 35 teams nationally. So expecting that is steep
This You? You don't sound very supportive. Everything that comes from you has the essence of "CMM is a great coach but don't expect him to win." Its the craziest stance I have ever seen.
quote:
Pretty sure I am saying that they will be on the bubble.
If you believe they can be on the bubble then people saying the tourney should be the goal shouldn't make you so angry. The difference between the last 4 in and the first 4 out is usually one or two bounces going for you or against you. The reason it makes you angry is because you don't believe in our coach.
Posted on 4/19/24 at 12:17 pm to Bert Macklin FBI
quote:Maybe you missed where I said
In year 3, he should have a team that can at least be on the bubble of the tournament. I believe he can do that. But you apparently don't.
quote:
And yet coach has us expecting to be right on that bubble already.
quote:Florida and State are still a notch above use, even though we were right there with both. I think we caught up with A&M and could pass them next year.
And Florida made the tourney at 24-11, State made it at 21-13, and A&M made it at 20-14. The SEC had 8 teams make the tournament. Being in the top 8 of the conference isn't some wild fantasy.
As for the 8 teams making the tourney, most were early exits so I don't think the SEC gets more than 7 next year. Luckily Alabama and Tennessee carried the brand or we might be looking at 5-6 teams.
Posted on 4/19/24 at 12:20 pm to Bert Macklin FBI
quote:The last 4 in and first 4 in are as much "on the bubble" as 1st 4 out and next 4 out. But in that range you are subject to the opinions and biases of the selection committee. I won't consider the season a failure if they are in the 1st 4 out or something like that. I think the posters saying in or bust are ridiculous.
If you believe they can be on the bubble then people saying the tourney should be the goal shouldn't make you so angry. The difference between the last 4 in and the first 4 out is usually one or two bounces going for you or against you. The reason it makes you angry is because you don't believe in our coach.
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