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Message
re: Any other GM in any other situation gets fired
Posted on 9/14/16 at 8:24 am to lsugrad35
Posted on 9/14/16 at 8:24 am to lsugrad35
quote:
Legit question as I don't really know how financials work with all of this stuff. What do we gain other than a roster spot by cutting CJ loose? Anything?
We lost $2.5 mil cap this year but gain $5 mil next year.
With carry this year's space over and restructuring Armstead, Unger, and Strief's bonuses we will start at $40 mil under the cap.
That's why we have so much dead money this year because we are cutting the dead weight (for the third straight year) so we could actually be big players in FA.
And trust me this coming year is a great year to have tons of cap sapce.
2
Posted on 9/14/16 at 10:16 am to bonethug0108
quote:
That's why we have so much dead money this year because we are cutting the dead weight (for the third straight year) so we could actually be big players in FA.
Well that and Junior ($12.1m) and Keenan's health ($6.35m)
Posted on 9/14/16 at 10:34 am to TigerBait1127
Junior is a big chunk of that, and it's kind of hard to predict when people will lose their fricking mind. Pretty sure we all loved the guy before that deal was made.
Keenan Lewis' health problems were an impossible variable to predict as well.
We whiffed on Spiller, but if I recall, this board was pretty excited when we signed him.
Who could have imagined fan favorite Jimmy Graham would turn soft as tissue paper after getting paid?
I don't know, I think this is more of a series of unfortunate and difficult to predict events than anything else.
Keenan Lewis' health problems were an impossible variable to predict as well.
We whiffed on Spiller, but if I recall, this board was pretty excited when we signed him.
Who could have imagined fan favorite Jimmy Graham would turn soft as tissue paper after getting paid?
I don't know, I think this is more of a series of unfortunate and difficult to predict events than anything else.
Posted on 9/14/16 at 10:37 am to Patrick O Rly
quote:
Maybe that's why Brees was willing to agree to a mere one year extension.
That and the fact that if we don't extend Brees before the end of 2017, we'd have a 18 million dollar cap hit after he's left.
So again, Brees has leverage on the Saints to force an extension.
Posted on 9/14/16 at 10:51 am to bbrownso
It's so damn strange that everyone fixates on this "dead money". I'm just going to throw this out again for all of the simpletons out there...
If Loomis was bad at his job then we wouldn't have the ability to drop and add players as we please. He is so good at his job that we're actually able to absorb this dead money and it not cripple the franchise.
Sometimes free agents don't pan out (Spiller) but sometimes they do and you get great value (Snead).
quote:
This "dead money" and "cap hell" that we've been in for the past 6 years is a non-issue. I don't recall us ever not being able to sign a player we targeted due to the cap. Loomis has mastered the ability to manipulate the cap and people get all bent out of shape because their feeble minds aren't able to understand his wizardry.
If Loomis was bad at his job then we wouldn't have the ability to drop and add players as we please. He is so good at his job that we're actually able to absorb this dead money and it not cripple the franchise.
Sometimes free agents don't pan out (Spiller) but sometimes they do and you get great value (Snead).
Posted on 9/14/16 at 11:00 am to NawlinsTiger9
quote:
Who could have imagined fan favorite Jimmy Graham would turn soft as tissue paper after getting paid?
Breesus.
Posted on 9/14/16 at 11:03 am to TigerBait1127
The dead money is the indictment. They have simply missed on to many large FA signings and overpaid extensions. A key component of the rise from '06 to the SB were some great signings and trades (Faine, Simoneau, Fujita, Shanle, Lance, Billy Miller, McKenzie, Hollis, PT23, Vilma, Gay, etc). They simply have whiffed on the decisions. Argue all ya want as to who to blame. Whoever it is, THIS is the most vital aspect to the team's recent woes. Subtract just $25mil from the dead money and you add 2 premium salaried All Pro caliber players.
The role of shame
Junior Galette $12,100,000- MASSIVE FU
Keenan Lewis $6,350,000- GOOD INVESTMENT DETOURED BY INJURY
Jahri Evans $5,100,000- FATHER TIME CATCHING UP SHOULD HAVE BEEN FORSEEN
CJ Spiller $4,500,000- SWING N MISS
Brandon Browner $4,050,000- DOUBLE PLAY
Marques Colston $2,700,000- NO HARM FOR YOUR ALLTIME LEADING WR
David Hawthorne $2,260,000- NEVER PLAYED UP TO HIS PAY
Brodrick Bunkley $1,612,500- DITTO
Erik Lorig $500,000- MAKE UP YOUR MIND ON A FB
Stanley Jean-Baptiste $482,448- STRETCH PICKS ARE OKAY- IF YOU HIT. ANY OF THE NEXT 5 PLAYERS DRAFTED AFTER HIM WOULD HAVE BEEN GOOD ADDS: Jack Mewhort, Kony Ealy, Allen Robinson, Jimmy Garoppolo, Jarvis Landry
TOTAL $40,405,183
The role of shame
Junior Galette $12,100,000- MASSIVE FU
Keenan Lewis $6,350,000- GOOD INVESTMENT DETOURED BY INJURY
Jahri Evans $5,100,000- FATHER TIME CATCHING UP SHOULD HAVE BEEN FORSEEN
CJ Spiller $4,500,000- SWING N MISS
Brandon Browner $4,050,000- DOUBLE PLAY
Marques Colston $2,700,000- NO HARM FOR YOUR ALLTIME LEADING WR
David Hawthorne $2,260,000- NEVER PLAYED UP TO HIS PAY
Brodrick Bunkley $1,612,500- DITTO
Erik Lorig $500,000- MAKE UP YOUR MIND ON A FB
Stanley Jean-Baptiste $482,448- STRETCH PICKS ARE OKAY- IF YOU HIT. ANY OF THE NEXT 5 PLAYERS DRAFTED AFTER HIM WOULD HAVE BEEN GOOD ADDS: Jack Mewhort, Kony Ealy, Allen Robinson, Jimmy Garoppolo, Jarvis Landry
TOTAL $40,405,183
Posted on 9/14/16 at 11:03 am to bbrownso
quote:
So again, Brees has leverage on the Saints to force an extension.
He's an elite QB. The only time he didn't have leverage was coming off of shoulder surgery.
And the cap hit in 2018 if not extended isn't a factor. If Brees is extended it won't happen. If he isn't we aren't paying a QB $25 mil per.
Basically he's extended or on another team in 2018.
Posted on 9/14/16 at 11:07 am to WhoGeaux
quote:Because they adjust their targets (down) based on what they have to spend...
I don't recall us ever not being able to sign a player we targeted due to the cap.
Posted on 9/14/16 at 11:09 am to blueslover
You're missing the forest for the trees blue. Everyone complaing about this is.
We signed these guys to escalating contracts, which means we payed them WELL below value year one and a little below value year two in most cases.
If they pan out then they stay and make more than their value in the later years (but are usually restructured to spread it out).
If they don't we cut bait and the contract equals out to what their per year would have been in almost every case.
The only two guys this wasn't true for were Galette because of him going mental and Graham because of his attitude and frick you I ain't trying cause I got paid mentality.
The first couldn't be avoided unless Chad was advising them.
The second could have been but EVERYONE (except Breesus) would have gone apeshit and crucified Loomis for letting Graham walk without getting compensation.
We signed these guys to escalating contracts, which means we payed them WELL below value year one and a little below value year two in most cases.
If they pan out then they stay and make more than their value in the later years (but are usually restructured to spread it out).
If they don't we cut bait and the contract equals out to what their per year would have been in almost every case.
The only two guys this wasn't true for were Galette because of him going mental and Graham because of his attitude and frick you I ain't trying cause I got paid mentality.
The first couldn't be avoided unless Chad was advising them.
The second could have been but EVERYONE (except Breesus) would have gone apeshit and crucified Loomis for letting Graham walk without getting compensation.
This post was edited on 9/14/16 at 11:10 am
Posted on 9/14/16 at 11:18 am to Chad504boy
quote:
Everyone was fine with Spiller being dead weight
Wat.
Posted on 9/14/16 at 11:36 am to NawlinsTiger9
quote:
Junior is a big chunk of that, and it's kind of hard to predict when people will lose their fricking mind. Pretty sure we all loved the guy before that deal was made.
I have zero problem with that signing.
quote:
Keenan Lewis' health problems were an impossible variable to predict as well.
Yep. Great free agency signing that fell apart. It happens.
quote:
We whiffed on Spiller, but if I recall, this board was pretty excited when we signed him.
I was ecstatic, but it goes back to the failure of letting Sproles go. You can draft a guy for that role instead of overpaying him like we did. Getting more than Ingram was egregious. Also, like Byrd, we signed a player that wasn't healthy.
quote:
Who could have imagined fan favorite Jimmy Graham would turn soft as tissue paper after getting paid?
I don't agree with this narrative. He played through injury before and after getting paid. But maybe he did have a locker room attitude, though Brees sure seems to love him. His kids wear Graham Seattle jerseys to school
quote:
I don't know, I think this is more of a series of unfortunate and difficult to predict events than anything else.
It is impacted a lot more by our drafts. Free agency should be reserved for healthy players only at this point that won't have to miss camp time.
I like what we did last year adding tons of depth at linebacker and grabbing Nick. Depth on defense was one of our biggest issues.
Big money should be spent on the line of scrimmage and front 7 in the future. Safeties are a luxury that are meaningless without a good pass rush.
Posted on 9/14/16 at 11:42 am to Mac
quote:
Because they adjust their targets (down) based on what they have to spend...
Not true. They manipulate the cap as needed. That's how they signed Byrd and that's also how we put together a better offer for Josh Norman then the team he signed with.
Both of these players are among the highest paid at their positions.
Posted on 9/14/16 at 1:31 pm to Mac
quote:
Because they adjust their targets (down) based on what they have to spend...
When?
Byrd
Fleener
Spiller
Browner
Norman this past year
Signing the top players is what has hurt us at much
Posted on 9/14/16 at 1:47 pm to Chad504boy
quote:Keeping him would have cost the team nothing the rest of the season. Even if you get a practice player or a return man, you get him for nothing.
We've shed the dead real quickly and will give this franchise a future while Brees still under center. The ignorant bitching is laughable. Everyone was fine with Spiller being dead weight on bench but not cut.
Posted on 9/14/16 at 1:53 pm to bonethug0108
quote:So, we are already talking about pushing more money into the future to potentially create more dead money? It would be closer to $33-$34 million (with an additional $11 million being pushed into a future year).
With carry this year's space over and restructuring Armstead, Unger, and Strief's bonuses we will start at $40 mil under the cap.
Posted on 9/14/16 at 2:14 pm to NOSHAU
quote:
Keeping him would have cost the team nothing the rest of the season. Even if you get a practice player or a return man, you get him for nothing.
It cost a roster spot which is valuable, especially when you have players dropping like flies.
You can only bring 1 guy back from IR
Posted on 9/14/16 at 2:15 pm to NOSHAU
quote:
So, we are already talking about pushing more money into the future to potentially create more dead money? It would be closer to $33-$34 million (with an additional $11 million being pushed into a future year).
We're at over$30 million just with what we have plus rollover actually
And you absolutely roll it into the future. That's just intelligent
Posted on 9/14/16 at 3:27 pm to TigerBait1127
$32 mil currently with rollover ($25 mil without), and Armstead's deal was designed to have the bonus convert to save another $4 mil. Then you maybe do it with Unger to save $2.63 mil and Strief you choose to keep or cut but you save the same either way (just depends if you want him around another year).
And you are paying that money regardless whether next year or in the future. And with cap rollover it doesn't matter when it hits because you can carry that $4 mil saved over into the next year if not used.
Get educated on the cap or stop complaining about things you know nothing about. I'm trying to help but some people (not directed at you TB) are being difficult.
And you are paying that money regardless whether next year or in the future. And with cap rollover it doesn't matter when it hits because you can carry that $4 mil saved over into the next year if not used.
Get educated on the cap or stop complaining about things you know nothing about. I'm trying to help but some people (not directed at you TB) are being difficult.
This post was edited on 9/14/16 at 3:29 pm
Posted on 9/14/16 at 5:00 pm to bonethug0108
quote:
Get educated on the cap or stop complaining about things you know nothing about. I'm trying to help but some people (not directed at you TB) are being difficult.
I was triggered for a second. I'm probably the 2nd most knowledgeable guy here on the cap
But I was about to respond to the first part saying that it is frustrating hearing the same cap BS being repeated year after year
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