re: Who we picking at 8?

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That's a big reason why I am in his corner for our team. He seems to be a potential great lead guard for the 2nd unit to pair with Trey and Jax (and likely Zion for stretches).

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My concern there is that I'm not sure is a great fit if the plan is to play Zion as the point guard with the second unit. Whereas I think someone like Griffin or Mathurin would fit in that scenario almost seamlessly as an offball shooting to compliment Zion. On the other end of the floor, I think Sochhan would fit great next to Zion to be able to guard the opposing team's best player when Zion is out there with the second unit.

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My concern there is that I'm not sure is a great fit if the plan is to play Zion as the point guard with the second unit.

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Zion needs that 2nd ballhandler/creator, like BI with CJ.

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Whereas I think someone like Griffin or Mathurin would fit in that scenario almost seamlessly as an offball shooting to compliment Zion.

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But we already kind of have that guy in Trey. Mathurin is my #2 so I'm not opposed to him, but I think his defense keeps him off the court (and is a major red flag with his personality, generally)

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Mathurin is my #2 so I'm not opposed to him, but I think his defense keeps him off the court (and is a major red flag with his personality, generally)

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And to kind of piggy back off this, I would always bank on a bad shooter to become at least an average shooter rather than a poor defender to become an average defender.

So if it was out of taking say Sochan or Daniels and taking the chance on them developing their shots, or taking Mathurin and taking the chance on him developing his defense, that’s an easy choice.

Plus it’s been proven time and time again you can add shooters later in the first, in the second, or even on the undrafted market.

Johnny Davis seems to check the most boxes within that line of thinking

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or even trading back to the #11-13 range

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For the sanity of people on this board, I pray we don't trade back. "What ifs" become much much worse when you trade back.

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Does Herb and Jose prove we can add elite defense in the 2nd and undrafted?

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You could potentially get lucky and add almost anything in the 2nd round. 2x MVP Nikola Jokic was a 2nd rounder, 4x All-NBA first team and 2017 NBA defensive player of the year Draymond Green was a 2nd rounder...so on and so on.

But in terms of actual realistic expectations, you're much more likely to find a shooter/scorer in the 2nd round then anything else. If you look at the last decade (excluding this season because not enough guys have had the opportunity to establish themselves) I found 32 guards/wings that I would classify as being "second round steals."

Of those 32, I would say 22 of them outplayed their draft selection because they're good shooters or good scorers. Then 5 of them are quasi All-Stars or All-Star caliber players. The other 5 are guys that I would classify as playing mostly because they're just very good defensively.

The reasoning for this? I would say you're more unlikely to find a guy that's good defensively but also good enough offensively to justify playing that guy. The extreme example (and this guy wasn't a 2nd rounder) is Matisse Thybulle. Excellent defender, but such a negative offensively his role diminished throughout the season.

Herb and Jose are the exceptions, not the rules.

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Daniels just posted some elite numbers in the drills.

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What drills & what numbers

ETA Nevermind just saw. Impressive for sure.

6-7 1/2 with shoes. Could still continue to grow in the next year or 2.