Started By
Message

re: Ways to keep house cool while waiting to repair AC situation.

Posted on 6/17/23 at 1:04 pm to
Posted by FieldEngineer
Member since Jan 2015
2132 posts
Posted on 6/17/23 at 1:04 pm to
quote:

meantime. I know window units work. Already have one, but they arent cheap to buy one for 6 different rooms.


Just putting one as close to the return as possible would help.
Posted by CrawDude
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2019
5285 posts
Posted on 6/17/23 at 1:05 pm to
quote:

We are pretty sure the culprit is the roof ventilation, but it'll take time to clarify. Not worried about system sizing, light fixtures, or the like. We know it operates properly under the conditions of the house usually. Either simethings broken or the roof ventilation was adjusted incorrectly. We had powered fans before, so know it's not just that. But may be installed improperly. I have people looking into it all. It just takes time. And during that time it's hot.


Clearly if the only thing that’s changed is the roof and roof ventilation then that’s the area to focus on. You being an engineer and having taken some HVAC classes, you can check your temperature split yourself by measuring temperature in the return plenum and supply plenum, if you are getting a split of 16-20 F then you can take some comfort in knowing the HVAC equipment is working properly. I would assume the techs would be doing that in addition to measuring refrigerant pressures, superheat, and subcool.

Sounds to me you doing everything practical that you can - I doubt if you could rent window ACs cheaper than buying but you could check, plus your cooling of the roof and bricks with water.

How’s the humidity upstairs? Around 50% or is it substantially higher? If in the 60-70% RH range lowering it with a portable dehumidifer will help with comfort even at higher temperatures.

Honestly though, if you are hitting 85F in the house in the PM with the HVAC operating it really sounds to me to be more than just a attic ventilation problem.
This post was edited on 6/17/23 at 8:30 pm
Posted by gerald65
Moss Bluff, LA
Member since Jul 2020
710 posts
Posted on 6/17/23 at 3:03 pm to
Just a thought....

As CrawDude said, something is just not right. So thinking out side the box.

Could some of the inlet air duck insulation have come loose and get sucked up against the cooling coils? This would block air flow coming out of the unit and not cool the upstairs. ie. the air vent temperature would only be 5 or 10 degrees cooler that the inlet temperature.

In my house, the A/C filter is in the hall and I can stand on a ladder and see the A/C coils. Also, while looking at the coils, look at how the cooling coils fit up next to the duck. Years ago, I had a new coil installed. When I changed the air filter a month later, I notice a "big" gap where I could stick a finger in the gap. This allows air to bypass the cooling coils.

Had to get the company to come out to correct this problem.

Several people talked about possible air duct leakage. Also need to look at possible air leakage from the plenum coming off the unit.
Posted by gerald65
Moss Bluff, LA
Member since Jul 2020
710 posts
Posted on 6/17/23 at 3:33 pm to
Again thinking outside the box....

On the outside unit, Is the air coming off the fan fairly hot and is the fan blowing good?

If the fan is not working properly.... could be your problem? While out there, check the inlet and outlet freon lines. The larger inlet line should be cold and the smaller outlet line should be hot.

Also, IIRC you had the coils cleaned a year ago. Might help some to clean them again. A gallon of coil cleaner will last many years. This reminds me, I need to clean the outside coils. I cleaned the inside coils about 2 months ago. The inside coil had a "black" color build up block a little of the fins. Note: "INSIDE" coil cleaner did not take the black stuff off. I had to use the "OUTSIDE" coil cleaner to get it off. And yes, I rinsed it really good and then lowered the temperature setting for a while to rinse it more for a while running the A/C.
Posted by gerald65
Moss Bluff, LA
Member since Jul 2020
710 posts
Posted on 6/17/23 at 3:38 pm to
Again thinking outside the box....

On the outside unit, Is the air coming off the fan fairly hot and is the fan blowing good?

If the fan is not working properly.... could be your problem? While out there, check the inlet and outlet freon lines. The larger inlet line should be cold and the smaller outlet line should be hot.

Also, IIRC you had the coils cleaned a year ago. Might help some to clean them again. A gallon of coil cleaner will last many years. This reminds me, I need to clean the outside coils. I cleaned the inside coils about 2 months ago. The inside coil had a "black" color build up block a little of the fins. Note: "INSIDE" coil cleaner did not take the black stuff off. I had to use the "OUTSIDE" coil cleaner to get it off. And yes, I rinsed it really good and then lowered the temperature setting for a while to rinse it more for a while running the A/C.
Posted by gerald65
Moss Bluff, LA
Member since Jul 2020
710 posts
Posted on 6/17/23 at 4:05 pm to
Have you measured the air vents outlet temperature? If so, what did you find? What was the air filter inlet temp. when you checked it? Humidity?

If you also checked the downstairs, that would give you an idea how to compare the 2 A/C unit operations.
Posted by TaderSalad
mudbug territory
Member since Jul 2014
24676 posts
Posted on 6/19/23 at 6:34 am to
Spray foam your attic. Did it to mine and my unit barely runs now.

My dad has a 2 story and with these crazy temps we’ve had lately, his attic was 96 degrees without any AC usage (his is down as well)
Posted by baldona
Florida
Member since Feb 2016
20518 posts
Posted on 6/19/23 at 2:29 pm to
quote:

Tech came out one morning and said everything looked fine. Came out again and said maybe it just needs a cleaning and they did that. Then the next time it wasn't hot enough that day. Then fall came. No issues until this week.


Respectfully OP, this isn’t an acceptable answer. You gotta have an air leak or some other major issue. You should be able to get about a 15-20 degree temp drop, if your upstairs is getting 80 that means it’s 95 degrees? This just doesn’t make sense.

I’m not saying your attic heat isn’t an issue, it probably is part of it.

But I would either have an hvac company bring an infrared camera over or rent, buy, or borrow one yourself. Walk around your upstairs and look for an air leak from your attic into your home. Walk around looking for hot air. Or you could get a thermometer and shoot temps around, to look for it but that would be a pain and a lot harder.

If you had just minimal insulation in your attic between the roof and your upstairs, with a properly working 3 ton unit and 1100 sq ft you should have no issues staying at a proper temp upstairs.

ETA: if I had a space that was hot and an hvac temp left saying ‘sorry I can’t help you’, I’d be pissed. They don’t just work on the units, a good tech will help you find things like air leaks, poor venting, etc.

It may even be you have a broken vent that’s shooting cold air into your attic so you are getting poor flow into your home. Idk
This post was edited on 6/19/23 at 2:32 pm
Posted by keakar
Member since Jan 2017
30126 posts
Posted on 6/19/23 at 2:50 pm to
quote:

I think it am attic ventilation issue from the change when the roof was installed,


well then you need to find out what they changed

did they not reinstall the ridge vents? or other vents?

if it happened after the roof was replaced then they changed something and didnt put back the same ventilation you had before
Posted by DMAN1968
Member since Apr 2019
10151 posts
Posted on 6/19/23 at 8:32 pm to
quote:

I know window units work. Already have one, but they arent cheap to buy one for 6 different rooms

You have 6 rooms in that 1100 square feet?

Not bedrooms I'm sure.

1 5k unit in the bedrooms alone should do it. $150 a pop is worth sleeping well.
Posted by Jon A thon
Member since May 2019
1676 posts
Posted on 6/20/23 at 5:54 am to
Upstairs has 4 bedrooms, the upstairs living area, and 2 bathrooms. I couldn't tell you for sure the square footage, but the total house is 2700. Downstairs is larger than upstairs (dining, office, kitchen, main living, guest, utility, etc.).

Seems on ridge vent may be too close to the powered fan. So they have that left to remedy by removing that ridge vent, but can't get here again until Monday. That ridge is too small to do anything, in fact the roof overall doesn't have enough ridges for ridge vents alone.

Called the AC company out for today to check another time and am calling an insulation company as well.

Just for everyone's knowledge, it's seems like spraying the roof and sun facing walls at ~5:30 allows upstairs to start cooling off about 1.5 hours earlier than if you don't. Still miserable all afternoon, but temps are down by 9ish. Whereas when I wasn't able to do it yesterday, it was still hot come 9:30 outside of the room with the window unit.
Posted by Jon A thon
Member since May 2019
1676 posts
Posted on 6/20/23 at 8:04 am to
quote:

if I had a space that was hot and an hvac temp left saying ‘sorry I can’t help you’, I’d be pissed.


I was. Trust me. I called them back out and it was overcast and the whole house was cool. They poked around and said I'd have to call them back out when it was hot to determine what the issue was.

I can't recall why, but it took until early September last year to notice how bad the issue was (remember roof was changed in May). It was uncomfortable during the afternoon, but cooled back down in the evening when home. I guess the problem has worsened since last summer. This past week it hasn't even cooled enough by bedtime to miss it. So, when we started troubleshooting, it was September, and they felt it was just that I needed a cleaning. Gave that a day and realized it didn't work. Scheduled another appointment and we had a cool front. Third one I just canceled since it wasn't acting up and knew I'd get the same response. From then to now, never had a single issue keeping cool. Didn't even notice higher power bills. Admittedly, out of sight out of mind and I didn't follow up. They are coming out today again though.

When it acted up again this past week, I went in the attic to look at the ventilation. I knew they went from 2 hardwired power fans to 1 solar and added ridge vents. When I saw how close the new fan was to a ridge vent, I questioned it and called the roofers to come check. They agreed. It's a hip roof and that particular ridge is only like 6' long, so it's not really doing anything and didn't exist before the new roof. I asked them to also recalculate if the single fan is enough (it is a larger volume fan). They showed me the calcs and I agree they took a very conservative approach and all seems in line. They did notice they covered the old fans, but left the motor and fan in the rafter and forgot to disconnect them, so I had fans just blowing at OSB. They've fixed that, but it doesn't seem to have been the issue.

By the end of the week, I'm hoping to just fix every possible issue. New insulation, cover ridge vent and possibly add another fan, full overview of the AC etc..


quote:

ou should be able to get about a 15-20 degree temp drop, if your upstairs is getting 80 that means it’s 95 degrees? This just doesn’t make sense.


What do you mean by this? A 15-20 degree drop from return to air vents? I understand that, but I don't have a thermometer to reliably measure that right now. But the reality is the thermostat reads 80-82 at hottest parts of the day.
Posted by BoogaBear
Member since Jul 2013
5611 posts
Posted on 6/20/23 at 8:20 am to
I know you stated that you had people looking into the A/C unit but I have had this exact thing happen. House was 4 years old, upstairs unit couldn't handle it during the dog days.

A/C guy after A/C guy came out and everything checked out. Finally, I called the installer, came out and said it's the blower, manufacturer defect in the units we had. Replaced the blower, back to normal.
Posted by baldona
Florida
Member since Feb 2016
20518 posts
Posted on 6/21/23 at 3:40 pm to
quote:


What do you mean by this? A 15-20 degree drop from return to air vents? I understand that, but I don't have a thermometer to reliably measure that right now. But the reality is the thermostat reads 80-82 at hottest parts of the day.


You can get a $30 infrared thermometer from the hardware store to shoot at your vents. The air should be coming out of them 15-20 degrees cooler than the ambient air. So if your thermostat is set at 72 and your inside air temp is about 72, then the vents closest to the inside HVAC system will have air coming out 52-57 degrees usually.

ETA: If its 82 inside your home, the air should be coming out of your vents at 62-67 degrees.

The blower is a good point, but if that's the issue I'd think you'd potentially be icing up. IDK.

The roof very well could be the issue, idk. But it seems like maybe you have an HVAC issue also, and the roof is just making it worse?

If you have just decent insulation, the attic heat should not be THAT much of an issue. I can see it causing it to not get down under say 72 or 74 degrees during the day. But staying at 80*+ IMO is not just a new roof issue.
This post was edited on 6/21/23 at 3:42 pm
Posted by CaptN
Prairieville
Member since Jan 2013
378 posts
Posted on 6/25/23 at 10:33 am to
More than a few people this year will be wondering the same. Freaked out by hurricanes and cut down all the shade trees around the house.
Posted by Jon A thon
Member since May 2019
1676 posts
Posted on 6/26/23 at 8:03 am to
Just to follow up with what the problem was. Faulty capacitor in the AC unit. Was going in and out. Must have been something that got worse and worse over time. When they came the first times, I guess they took their measurements when it was on. This time, the guy could see it kicking on and off. Was providing enough compressor "on time" to cool off in evenings, but not in the heat of the day.

Still getting insulation quote today though in case and they are addressing the attic ventilation.
Posted by CrawDude
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2019
5285 posts
Posted on 6/26/23 at 8:26 am to
Thanks for sharing the update - usually such as easy item to diagnosis.
Posted by gerald65
Moss Bluff, LA
Member since Jul 2020
710 posts
Posted on 6/26/23 at 10:36 pm to
Thanks for the update. This solution may help others with there problems.
first pageprev pagePage 2 of 2Next pagelast page
refresh

Back to top
logoFollow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News
Follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram to get the latest updates on LSU Football and Recruiting.

FacebookTwitterInstagram