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New construction exterior sheathing

Posted on 7/18/23 at 7:09 am
Posted by AyyyBaw
Member since Jan 2020
1063 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 7:09 am
Trying to get an idea before I meet with builder/draftsman.

Scenario details:
New construction in South Louisiana with open cell spray foam in exterior walls and on underside of roof decking. HVAC with dehumidifier and fresh air supply.

Roof - rafters, OSB, adhesive ice/water over entire deck, arc shingles

My main question is what is the best exterior wall design for our hot and humid climate while going with a tighter house with spray foam? 2x4, OSB, Tyvek or 2x4, plywood, Tyvek? Taped OSB/plywood seams under Tyvek?

Trying to find a balance with energy efficiency but also forgiveness when water does eventually get behind the cement board cladding. Just looking to see what most non-spec homes are going with these days. Interior walls will be sheetrock.
Posted by PureBlood
The Motherland
Member since Oct 2021
4002 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 7:24 am to
Make sure you get a quality guy to do your foam. You run the risk of creating a mold cultivating situation.

I'd trust builder on sheathing. House underlayment has come a long way.
Posted by AyyyBaw
Member since Jan 2020
1063 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 7:41 am to
10-4 on the mold situation. This is why I’m trying to ensure vapor, water, air barrier/permeability is addressed appropriately on the front end. I’ll be vetting the spray foam sub. I do plan to go with builder recs (within reason) for underlayment as long as they have good experience with foamed/tighter envelopes.
Posted by JusTrollin
Member since Oct 2016
234 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 8:13 am to
ZIP System taped with zip tape and liquid flash nail holes. Or traditional OSB with peel and stick membrane applied such as henry blueskin.
Posted by AyyyBaw
Member since Jan 2020
1063 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 9:04 am to
quote:

henry blueskin


This seems to be very ideal as a water/air barrier that is still vapor permeable allowing moisture to dry from the inside out. Wasn’t sure if many builders are using anything like that in South LA.
Posted by JusTrollin
Member since Oct 2016
234 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 9:08 am to
Not common on residential here. You sometimes see it in commercial but everyone is worried about price so they build cheap pieces of shite with tyvek.
Posted by Camnola
God’s Country
Member since Sep 2012
219 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 9:13 am to
Huberwood.com
Posted by baseballmind1212
Missouri City
Member since Feb 2011
3265 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 10:32 am to
Zip system.

It's easy to install, easy to inspect, and not over the top expensive like gyp sheathing/air Barrier/self adhered membrane.

Posted by Art Vandelay
LOUISIANA
Member since Sep 2005
10710 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 11:41 am to
Look for the tyvek spec. Or call them. They’ll work with you if you use their product. Osb is fine on the wall. I don’t like osb on the roof. We use 98% 5/8 cdx on roof deck. Rarely get a request for osb.
Posted by AyyyBaw
Member since Jan 2020
1063 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 2:58 pm to
Thanks everyone - y'all have given me things to think about. Not trying to cut corners on this aspect of the build.
Posted by Skeeterzx190
Ponchatoula
Member since Sep 2019
190 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 4:50 pm to
I used radiant barrier osb on my roof and also after my walls were up I put up foam insulation board from Lowe’s on walls before the bricks went up. Taped the seams as well
Posted by dragginass
Member since Jan 2013
2773 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 4:52 pm to
Zip system. I will never build another structure without it, until something better comes along. The "stretch tape" alone is worth using it.

[url=https://postimg.cc/xk6Pbk7m] [/url]
This post was edited on 7/18/23 at 6:26 pm
Posted by Turnblad85
Member since Sep 2022
1265 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 8:22 pm to
Zip has made tyvek obsolete, imo. Only people still using tyvek are luddites.

Zip panels were high as shite for a while but last time I checked they were way down.
Posted by AyyyBaw
Member since Jan 2020
1063 posts
Posted on 7/19/23 at 4:56 am to
With Zip panels, do y’all flash wall penetrations with the tape or the liquid flash? I’m guessing both liquid and tape might each be better in some applications than the other. If Zip is used for roof decking, would you still top it with IW shield in the valleys, hips, sealed ridges, eves, etc. or just shingle strait on the zip in those areas?
Posted by DickTater
Geismar
Member since Feb 2013
78 posts
Posted on 7/19/23 at 7:38 am to
Check out Matt Risinger on YouTube …website. High performance builder out of Austin, has a ton of info on the proper way to build for our climate…main problem here is finding subs that can install per manufacturer recommendations. The product is only as good as the install!
Posted by good_2_geaux
Member since Feb 2015
741 posts
Posted on 7/19/23 at 8:17 pm to
I would ice/water the valleys. Google FORTIFIED roof system. If I were building new, I would make sure the roof meets the FORTIFIED standards and the contractor can provide proper certs stating the roof complies. Reason being a)it is a well studied process for a more wind resistant roof b)most insurers will offer a discount on your home insurance.
Posted by Turnblad85
Member since Sep 2022
1265 posts
Posted on 7/19/23 at 8:45 pm to
quote:

With Zip panels, do y’all flash wall penetrations with the tape or the liquid flash? I’m guessing both liquid and tape might each be better in some applications than the other. If Zip is used for roof decking, would you still top it with IW shield in the valleys, hips, sealed ridges, eves, etc. or just shingle strait on the zip in those areas?



Liquid flashing will usually outperform tapes in any application but it comes with a cost of labor and materials. Tape is easy and quick to apply but smearing goop is a tedious. The most important thing is to use the tapes and sealants that are made for system. I'm sure things can be mixed up and interchange different manufactures materials but sticking with what we know works is best practice by a wide margin. And of course the ever useless warranty will require to follow the manu's system of products if that matters at all to you.


I think ZIP and Weatherlogic are the two taped panel systems readily available. zip being much more known.


As far as roof decking, thats something the roofer and builder would have to answer and probably also the manu of the panels. Many variables to that. Foamed roof deck, complicated roof lines, weather region..... I would think IW shield in the valleys at least it would always be worth the extra cost.

As much of an improvement these panels are over building wrap, they aren't bullet proof. Rainscreens that let the sheathing dry when is does eventually get wet is fantastic. Also very helpful is generous roof overhangs that keep the bulk of the water off the sides of the house . Problem with that is most architects don't think in terms of home performance and are building homes like freaking legos.


Here is a great youtube of Landus Bennet, the inventor of zip. No longer works for Huber but still is very active in the building science sector. They breakdown the pros and cons of different WRBs. LINK

Posted by dragginass
Member since Jan 2013
2773 posts
Posted on 7/19/23 at 9:50 pm to
If I could start my career over again I'd be a building science geek. Building durable structures is satisfying, and desperately needed.
Posted by AyyyBaw
Member since Jan 2020
1063 posts
Posted on 7/20/23 at 7:41 am to
Yes, I've thought of the rain shield as well - thank you for pointing that out. Cladding will be vertical cement board, so I'm thinking we can always do horizontal perforated or corrugated furring strips which would provide a rain shield for ventilation between cladding and WRB and also a nailing surface for vertically hung cement board. Not sure if that is common practice or not though. I love the idea of Zip - it's the installation that worries me. If you have good seals at the seams and penetrations, then no worries. Just need to inspect very closely as it is being installed whereas a wrap may have more forgiveness with the install - possibly. A decent middle ground between efficiency and forgiveness may be open cell - 1/2 cdx with taped seams (to increase air barrier), wrap, rain shield (furring strips that allow drainage/vent), cladding. This should create a good rain/air barrier while still having a good perm rate - creates a good seal while still preparing for perm/ventiliation when water does get behind the cladding.
Posted by Turnblad85
Member since Sep 2022
1265 posts
Posted on 7/21/23 at 9:52 am to
Can't say I've ever seen or heard of it done like that. First impression is thats a lot going on with a wall assembly. Its not easy to find a builder (if you're going to use one) who is willing to do unknown things. They like doing things they are used to with no learning-on-the-job surprises. Poorly installed zip or wrap is going to suck no matter what. Also, with the cdx sandwiched between wrap and foam, I'm not sure there is enough ability to dry if water gets between them. Tyvek has decent permeability but a few inches deep open cell is very little perm. That plywood may be wet for a long time before drying. I just don't know.

My personal favorite wall assembly accounting for cost and performance is: generous roof overhangs then cladding~rainscreen~zip (or zip-R)~rockwool insulation. But there are many ways to skin that cat and new products are being put out every day.

Seems like you're thinking things through and want a well built home. I'd suggest spending a little money and time on greenbuildingadvisor. Not sure how familiar you are with it but they are more building science oriented than "green" which is a bit misleading. Once you've formulated a thoughtful idea of what you want, you can ask questions and get good answers possibly even from authors and industry experts who love talking building science. Just be mindful to ask good specific questions. Not, "so whats a good way to insulate a home" . Ain't nobody got time for that shite. Caveat; I haven't spent much time on there in 5 years so I think that's still how it works.


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