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Started By
Message
re: Pope Francis Clarifies, Again, Why Some Don’t Like His Blessing Of Homosexual Couples
Posted on 1/31/24 at 9:42 am to RockoRou
Posted on 1/31/24 at 9:42 am to RockoRou
Catholics do not Shun people, as part of their theology.
All are welcome to become one with Christ through His Church. We here on Earth are all on a pilgrimage. We will sin and have sins on our Souls. We repent and amend our ways. We may receive a Blessing from a Priest. This Blessing does not Bless Sin, because Sin cannot be Blessed.
People are Blessed. Souls are Blessed.
I submit that's what is going on here.
I submit that those who are reacting violently to this initiative are forgetting that we Love the Sinner and Hate the Sin.
Jesus Christ never shunned the Sinner and neither will the Roman Catholic Church.
If a person wants to Shun male gay people and banish them from their midst, go join another congregation. Good Catholics do not shun and banish people because they have Sinned.
And, as a corollary of my thinking here, if a homosexual person is unrepentant and determined to continue practicing gay sex, then, the Roman Catholic Church is not for you. There are other places that are in Protestantism that will welcome you and your sexual practices with open arms. Go there.
PS All here are still in agreement that we oppose the Pope's initiative on this matter. We all agree that it will tend to cause more harm than good.
All are welcome to become one with Christ through His Church. We here on Earth are all on a pilgrimage. We will sin and have sins on our Souls. We repent and amend our ways. We may receive a Blessing from a Priest. This Blessing does not Bless Sin, because Sin cannot be Blessed.
People are Blessed. Souls are Blessed.
I submit that's what is going on here.
I submit that those who are reacting violently to this initiative are forgetting that we Love the Sinner and Hate the Sin.
Jesus Christ never shunned the Sinner and neither will the Roman Catholic Church.
If a person wants to Shun male gay people and banish them from their midst, go join another congregation. Good Catholics do not shun and banish people because they have Sinned.
And, as a corollary of my thinking here, if a homosexual person is unrepentant and determined to continue practicing gay sex, then, the Roman Catholic Church is not for you. There are other places that are in Protestantism that will welcome you and your sexual practices with open arms. Go there.
PS All here are still in agreement that we oppose the Pope's initiative on this matter. We all agree that it will tend to cause more harm than good.
This post was edited on 1/31/24 at 9:45 am
1
Posted on 1/31/24 at 10:23 am to The Maj
Got to expand the pool of possible donations.
Posted on 1/31/24 at 12:10 pm to Champagne
quote:
Cite from the Catechism, please, this statement of yours.
You used the word "nuance" to describe Bergoglio's decision to approve blessing of homosexuals. This has been Bergoglio's Mode of Operation from the beginning. His action has created much confusion. Instead of proclaiming the Truth (Truth tested by time, sacrifice, prayer and study by legions of Saints spanning millenia) he has chosen to confuse, and satan exploits confusion.
That homosexuality was condemned in the early Church is a fact. In his Letter to the Romans, St.Paul clearly condemns the practice, in no uncertain terms. But as the centuries passed there developed a more tolerant attitude towards homosexuals. I'll say it, IMO Bergoglio's decision to allow blessing of Gay Couples is a prelude to full recognition of so-called 'Gay Marriage'. Make no mistake, Bergoglio and his pal James Martin want homosexual union of gay men and lesbian women elevated to that of a Sacrament. Look at what they do, not at what they say.
Actions have consequences, and the negative optics involved in priest blessing gays cannot be ignored. Argue whatever you believe, people will see blessing of gays and gay couples as evidence the Catholic Church has accepted gay marriage. I could also argue about avoiding scandal since this guy Bergoglio has done more to promote scandal in my Church than any Pope in my lifetime.
But regarding to your question about Catechism of The Catholic Church I reference the following excerpts....
MORTAL SIN
1855 Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God's law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him.
Comment: God is Truth. The absence of Truth is hell, and hell is the absence of God.
SCANDAL
2285 Scandal takes on a particular gravity by reason of the authority of those who cause it or the weakness of those who are scandalized. It prompted our Lord to utter this curse: "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."85 Scandal is grave when given by those who by nature or office are obliged to teach and educate others. Jesus reproaches the scribes and Pharisees on this account: he likens them to wolves in sheep's clothing.
Comment: The role of the Supreme Pontif is to teach as Jesus did, go in search of wayward souls and bring them back to the flock, not chase souls away. He basically accuses the African Bishops of misguided culturalism. To which I reply, even the tribes of Africa understand the role biological males and females play in God's plan for the family. It's a basic matter of survival for them. Maybe Bergoglio should spend some time among the remaining tribes of Africa.
CHASTITY AND HOMOSEXUALITY
2357 Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,140 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."141 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity.Under no circumstances can they be approved.
Comment: Since you say Bergoglio has chosen his own 'nuanced' interpretation of Scripture and the Catechism of the Catholic Church then I choose to set forth my original point - Bergoglio has chosen to bless gay unions - everyone knows this to be the case. Blessing signifies approval. At the very least he has created confusion. At worst he has put the souls of many in danger of falling into homosexuality - a mortal sin. In addition he has created division when we desperately need a unified Catholic Church. As you know unity is not a redeeming characteristic of beelzebub.
cognoscetis veritatem et veritas liberabit vos
This post was edited on 1/31/24 at 2:51 pm
Posted on 1/31/24 at 12:14 pm to LuckyTiger
quote:
it aims to include, not divide,” the pontiff added.
if he means access to children by pedos, then yeah.
Posted on 1/31/24 at 12:17 pm to Zarkinletch416
In vino veritas
Posted on 1/31/24 at 12:44 pm to DownSouthJukin
quote:
But trying to pick apart a fairly clear passage in the Bible to say that Jesus never intended that Peter be the first bishop of the Church does nothing but cause harm to all of Christianity because you are attacking Jesus's own words.
I must be missing that part of my Bible. I've started reading it through again, but the first two times through, I don't remember anything about bishops, popes, or Catholic anything. Can you point it out to me?
Posted on 1/31/24 at 3:15 pm to troyt37
quote:
Can you point it out to me?
Just as soon as you point to me where in the Bible it says it has to be in the Bible in order for it to be true, right, and just.
Posted on 1/31/24 at 3:20 pm to Zarkinletch416
I agree with your post, but, you did not cite anything from the Catechism that quotes your conclusion that:
" You can't bless the soul of a person living in Mortal Sin."
Now, having settled that there is no cite from the Catechism that directly quotes your statement, we continue with the discussion -
We know that a Person who is living in Mortal Sin can indeed receive a Blessing from a Priest at every Mass during Holy Communion. So, this is settled.
Perhaps when the Person is receiving such a Blessing at Holy Communion, that Person's Soul is a completely separate Entity that is NOT Blessed, but the Person IS Blessed.
So, the question is: Is the Soul a part of the Person, or is it a distinctly separate Entity?
We don't have to answer it because I can avoid the question by stating that the Pope wants the PERSON to be Blessed, like at Communion, and the Pope instructs the Priest NOT to Bless the Mortal Sin.
So, the Pope wants Gay Couples to be able to go to Mass or see a Priest in private and receive a Blessing upon their Persons BUT NOT a Blessing on their Mortal Sins.
I think this makes sense, do you?
And, of course, to reiterate, we all disagree with the Pope because he sows confusion with his vague nuances at a time when the Enemies of the Church are voraciously gnawing at the Body of Christ by taking full advantage of the confusion that the Pope himself has created.
Will the Roman Catholic Church one day fully Bless and Endorse Gay Male Sex and Gay Male Marriage? I don't know and neither do you. We know that all of Christianity is being pressured and harassed to go fully in this direction. We know that. Several large Protestant denominations have already done this.
" You can't bless the soul of a person living in Mortal Sin."
Now, having settled that there is no cite from the Catechism that directly quotes your statement, we continue with the discussion -
We know that a Person who is living in Mortal Sin can indeed receive a Blessing from a Priest at every Mass during Holy Communion. So, this is settled.
Perhaps when the Person is receiving such a Blessing at Holy Communion, that Person's Soul is a completely separate Entity that is NOT Blessed, but the Person IS Blessed.
So, the question is: Is the Soul a part of the Person, or is it a distinctly separate Entity?
We don't have to answer it because I can avoid the question by stating that the Pope wants the PERSON to be Blessed, like at Communion, and the Pope instructs the Priest NOT to Bless the Mortal Sin.
So, the Pope wants Gay Couples to be able to go to Mass or see a Priest in private and receive a Blessing upon their Persons BUT NOT a Blessing on their Mortal Sins.
I think this makes sense, do you?
And, of course, to reiterate, we all disagree with the Pope because he sows confusion with his vague nuances at a time when the Enemies of the Church are voraciously gnawing at the Body of Christ by taking full advantage of the confusion that the Pope himself has created.
Will the Roman Catholic Church one day fully Bless and Endorse Gay Male Sex and Gay Male Marriage? I don't know and neither do you. We know that all of Christianity is being pressured and harassed to go fully in this direction. We know that. Several large Protestant denominations have already done this.
This post was edited on 1/31/24 at 3:21 pm
Posted on 1/31/24 at 3:48 pm to DownSouthJukin
Wrong. The quote that Peter said to Christ was what the church was built on. Peter in Greek is Petros meaning small stone or pebble. Petra is the Greek word for rock or large stone. “Thou are the Christ, the son of the living God”. Matthew16:19. Not trying to offend anyone or attack anyone’s religion.
Posted on 1/31/24 at 3:55 pm to teke184
"Remind me again, Francis, what does the Bible say on the subject?"
The Pope obviously doesn't know his Bible -- apparently just that Catholic uninspired Bible (or whatever it's called).
The Pope obviously doesn't know his Bible -- apparently just that Catholic uninspired Bible (or whatever it's called).
Posted on 1/31/24 at 3:59 pm to troyt37
quote:
I've started reading it through again, but the first two times through, I don't remember anything about bishops, popes, or Catholic anything.
Because it's not in there. That's part of their "traditions" that they now claim have equal, if not more, weight than the Bible.
Posted on 1/31/24 at 4:16 pm to Champagne
quote:
If a person wants to Shun male gay people and banish them from their midst, go join another congregation. Good Catholics do not shun and banish people because they have Sinned. And, as a corollary of my thinking here, if a homosexual person is unrepentant and determined to continue practicing gay sex, then, the Roman Catholic Church is not for you. There are other places that are in Protestantism that will welcome you and your sexual practices with open arms. Go there.
Kemosabe, these two points cannot coexist.
You’re saying come on in gay dudes, we the Catholic Church will never turn away sinners. But if you’re going to keep being gay, the Catholic Church isn’t the place for you.
Gay couples are not going to stop being gay just because they go to mass and get blessed.
Posted on 1/31/24 at 4:22 pm to LuckyTiger
quote:
You’re saying come on in gay dudes, we the Catholic Church will never turn away sinners.
quote:
Gay couples are not going to stop being gay just because they go to mass and get blessed.
Being gay in and of itself is not the sin. The Catholic Church is very clear on that.
Acting upon it is the sin. A gay person can always repent his sin and become celibate. Then they’re welcomed back into the Church. No different than heterosexuals who stop having sex outside of marriage and repent their past sins.
Now the fact is, the Church doesn’t recognize gay marriage. So that could be problematic for gay couples.
Posted on 1/31/24 at 5:13 pm to Godfather1
I understand that.
But these gay couples, do you think that’s what they’re going for? That they want to be gay and not do any gay acts?
But these gay couples, do you think that’s what they’re going for? That they want to be gay and not do any gay acts?
Posted on 1/31/24 at 5:22 pm to teke184
quote:
Remind me again, Francis, what does the Bible say on the subject?
The printing press was hard on the catholic faith. Once everyone got a copy of the bible the pope's had trouble rewriting things and hiding books in the basement of the vatican.
Posted on 1/31/24 at 6:02 pm to lsu13lsu
quote:
The printing press was hard on the catholic faith. Once everyone got a copy of the bible the pope's had trouble rewriting things and hiding books in the basement of the vatican.
Why didn’t the Church just stop copying the Bible then if the text was so damaging to them?
Posted on 1/31/24 at 6:02 pm to LuckyTiger
quote:
But these gay couples, do you think that’s what they’re going for? That they want to be gay and not do any gay acts?
No.
And that’s where I’m saying it can be problematic for them. There’s no way they can have gay sex and remain in good standing with the Church. Celibacy would be their only option. And let’s be frank, for most gay people, since it’s not about procreation (which is the Church’s primary emphasis on sex within marriage) sex is solely about pleasure.
This post was edited on 1/31/24 at 6:06 pm
Posted on 1/31/24 at 6:07 pm to LuckyTiger
Not sure what this "pope" is trying to say. Doesn't take a theologian to understand God's view on gays.
He is an apostate and will have to answer for his betrayal.
He is an apostate and will have to answer for his betrayal.
Posted on 1/31/24 at 6:07 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Why didn’t the Church just stop copying the Bible then if the text was so damaging to them?
A better question is why did the Catholic church create the Bible after having received the canon in the first place
Posted on 1/31/24 at 6:15 pm to LuckyTiger
quote:
Because some people see homosexuality as a bad thing.
Homosexuality(the attraction to the same sex) in itself is not the sin, but the act of two same sex people having sex is sinful. A person can be chaste and not commit sin. Pope Francis can’t change that teaching no matter how much nonsense he spews. He is giving his opinion.
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