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re: Shogun - Official Series Discussion Thread **Spoilers**
Posted on 3/3/24 at 10:08 am to rebelrouser
Posted on 3/3/24 at 10:08 am to rebelrouser
quote:
It must have been an inspiration for George RR Martin's GoTs.
After GoT I hoped Rings of Power or Wheel of Time (haven't read those) would fill the void. scratch that medieval fantasy, political intrigue, tits and violence itch. But those two sure sucked.
Turns out the answer this whole time was just film a bunch of Japanese people doing a bunch of real Japanese things and you get all of that.
2
Posted on 3/3/24 at 10:38 am to bostitch
I have high hopes for the upcoming 9 Princes in Amber adaptation.
Posted on 3/3/24 at 2:44 pm to bostitch
quote:
After GoT I hoped Rings of Power or Wheel of Time (haven't read those) would fill the void. scratch that medieval fantasy, political intrigue, tits and violence itch. But those two sure sucked.
Both of those were exceptionally tame books. WoT had some sex but it was never graphic or descriptive.
GoT actually toned down how vulgar the books were at some points IMO, believe it or not.
ETA: but yes. Just film things in a mostly similar idea that the author wrote with a bit of gusto and people will like it.
See Dune, Shogun, Last of Us (outside of THOSE episodes,) and early GoT.
Put your own spin on it and you get Wheel of Time, RoP, Halo, etc.
This post was edited on 3/3/24 at 2:48 pm
Posted on 3/3/24 at 6:08 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
Picked back up on EP1 last night and I can't get youtube tv to not dub it over.
There are two versions of the release. Stop playing the dubbed version
Posted on 3/3/24 at 10:41 pm to 3nOut
quote:What points were those? I feel like they cranked it way up for the show. There were no gay guys shaving each other in the books.
GoT actually toned down how vulgar the books were at some points IMO, believe it or not.
shite, the reader only knew Renly was gay by insinuation.
This post was edited on 3/3/24 at 10:42 pm
Posted on 3/4/24 at 7:34 am to theunknownknight
quote:
I can see why it’s rated so high with the liberals within the first 30 minutes
I’m probably more conservative than you and I haven’t seen anything woke at all so far.
Posted on 3/4/24 at 10:05 am to theunknownknight
quote:
4. The cross is stomped on
Wait until you find out what the real Shogun did who they're basing Toranaga on. I don't think your fragile mind can take it
This post was edited on 3/4/24 at 10:06 am
Posted on 3/4/24 at 11:00 am to theGarnetWay
quote:Not familiar with the actor and maybe it’s just the way he talks, but his voice sounds forced and overacted. My one nitpick with the show so far.
Also, does anyone else think the actor playing Blackthorne sounds like Russell Crowe?
Posted on 3/4/24 at 11:04 am to Jor Jor The Dinosaur
quote:
Not familiar with the actor and maybe it’s just the way he talks, but his voice sounds forced and overacted. My one nitpick with the show so far.
He’s got that gravely Charles Vane voice.
Watched the first two episodes. Excellent TV.
Posted on 3/4/24 at 11:10 am to Jor Jor The Dinosaur
quote:
Not familiar with the actor and maybe it’s just the way he talks, but his voice sounds forced and overacted. My one nitpick with the show so far.
Ditto. Numerous times through each episode I keep thinking "this can't be his real voice right?"
Very good through two episodes so far though.
Posted on 3/4/24 at 11:17 am to 3nOut
quote:
when they introduce a black gay character, sure, let's talk.
One scene from the book that cracked me up, Blackthorne turns down a woman, so they offer him a boy and he gets angry. So one of the samurai suggests to the interpreter that he might prefer dogs or ducks like a Korean.
quote:
Oan-san, why not let one of the women send for the duck?” the old samurai whispered agreeably. “We just put it down. If he wants it everything’s fine, if not he’ll pretend he hasn’t seen it.
This post was edited on 3/4/24 at 11:20 am
Posted on 3/4/24 at 11:33 am to jeff5891
Finally got it's first "Rotten" review.
From The Indian Express:
Shogun is now at 99% with 72 reviews
From The Indian Express:
quote:
Shogun review: An adaptation of James Clavell's epic historical novel set in feudal Japan, the 10-episode miniseries offers lavish visuals but an overstuffed plot.
quote:
Breathtaking to behold, but at the same time, almost too unwieldy to comprehend, FX’s Shogun is an inconsistent affair whose downsides ultimately outweigh its achievements.
quote:
there’s something not quite right about asking the audience to latch onto the sole white man in a story set entirely in feudal Japan.
quote:
your conditioning as a viewer of Western storytelling means that you’re automatically drawn towards Blackthorne, not in the least because Shogun itself appears to circle back to him periodically. We enter this world through his perspective, like a parrot perched on his shoulder. And for all the ‘barbarian’ talk — he’s perceived as little more than vermin initially — the Japanese point-of-view always feels secondary. Shogun isn’t the perspective-shift that it could have been, it’s merely a perspective dilution.
Shogun is now at 99% with 72 reviews
Posted on 3/4/24 at 1:49 pm to rebelrouser
quote:
The book was one of my all time most enjoyable reads. Could not put it down despite the length. On par with Red Storm Rising and Lord of the Rings in scope and brilliance. It must have been an inspiration for George RR Martin's GoTs.
My mom had it in her bookcase for as long as I can remember. I wish I’d taken the time to read it. I just started watching after seeing this thread. I was hooked pretty quickly and just ordered the book.
Posted on 3/4/24 at 2:48 pm to Green Chili Tiger
Watched the first two episodes this weekend and I absolutely love it.
Might find it's way into my favorite shows of all time. It's that good so far. Great acting, interesting plot line, sets/scene has been awesome.
Might find it's way into my favorite shows of all time. It's that good so far. Great acting, interesting plot line, sets/scene has been awesome.
Posted on 3/4/24 at 8:18 pm to nes2010
I bought the book in 1980 when the first miniseries came out. Read during the day and watched the show at night. Since then I’ve reread the book several times and rewatched on DVD twice.
The reviews of the new series consistently praise it for being made for a modern audience. They especially like that it shows the Japanese point of view, where the first series was seen through Blackthorne’s eyes - including placing him as a witness to conversations between Japanese characters.
In the first series, you learn the plot and the language through Blackthorne. In the second, it’s all spoonfed with tons of exposition. You see the full picture instead of it unfolding but by bit. They dumbed it down which I didn’t like.
The overall plot follows the book, but they completely rewrote the dialogue and changed a lot of details. So it’s not faithful- and the book dialogue was just better.
The acting’s different too. The first is more emotive; the new one is flatter. I wonder how each will age.
Interestingly, the first was filmed in Japan; the second in Vancouver. Yet modern critics say the second one is more accurate to Japanese sensibilities. Go figure.
And the new one has no sense of humor. They cut Blackthorne’s initial refusal to take a bath “a bath will make you foul sick!” They cut out his discomfort with sex and nudity.
I’m glad they made it and I will watch. It is beautifully filmed in a modern arty way. And I hope I come to love it as much as the original.
TL|DR: original version is better.
The reviews of the new series consistently praise it for being made for a modern audience. They especially like that it shows the Japanese point of view, where the first series was seen through Blackthorne’s eyes - including placing him as a witness to conversations between Japanese characters.
In the first series, you learn the plot and the language through Blackthorne. In the second, it’s all spoonfed with tons of exposition. You see the full picture instead of it unfolding but by bit. They dumbed it down which I didn’t like.
The overall plot follows the book, but they completely rewrote the dialogue and changed a lot of details. So it’s not faithful- and the book dialogue was just better.
The acting’s different too. The first is more emotive; the new one is flatter. I wonder how each will age.
Interestingly, the first was filmed in Japan; the second in Vancouver. Yet modern critics say the second one is more accurate to Japanese sensibilities. Go figure.
And the new one has no sense of humor. They cut Blackthorne’s initial refusal to take a bath “a bath will make you foul sick!” They cut out his discomfort with sex and nudity.
I’m glad they made it and I will watch. It is beautifully filmed in a modern arty way. And I hope I come to love it as much as the original.
TL|DR: original version is better.
Posted on 3/4/24 at 9:29 pm to SpringBokCock
Can someone explain why the English dude is so pivotal to the Japs? Just because he knows of an island with Japanese soldiers? I'm confused
Posted on 3/4/24 at 9:35 pm to Civildawg
quote:
Can someone explain why the English dude is so pivotal to the Japs? Just because he knows of an island with Japanese soldiers? I'm confused
He’s basically revealing the power, subversiveness, and possible intent/long term secretive plans of the Portuguese that they had purposely not been telling the Japanese leaders.
Even the revelation that he’s Protestant and that there are other Christians out there at war with the Portuguese over their different beliefs reveals how much they’ve been left in the dark.
The fact that they could be secretly raising an army of Japanese mercenaries relatively close by compounds their fear.
This post was edited on 3/5/24 at 5:19 pm
Posted on 3/4/24 at 11:52 pm to theGarnetWay
Just finished watching episode 3
Best one yet!
Best one yet!
Posted on 3/5/24 at 6:57 am to Green Chili Tiger
Holy hell this show is good. Just found it last night
Posted on 3/5/24 at 9:48 am to SpringBokCock
quote:
the first was filmed in Japan; the second in Vancouver.
Meh this doesn't bother me. While it very obviously looks like the Pacific Northwest, they've done a good job with the sets and the Japanese cast that it still feels right.
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