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re: Whoever started coaching catchers on 1 knee
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:24 am to doubleb
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:24 am to doubleb
quote:
What about the way our catchers give the target, then they drop their mitt to the ground, and then bring it back up fast to catch the ball?
What is the purpose of doing that?
To steal more strikes at the bottom of the zone.
0
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:27 am to Tiger Ryno
quote:
Shitty catchers can't block. It has nothing to do with their knee being down.
Untrue. Anyone who has played catcher knows you can move and push off to either direction when in the squatting position. If you are on one knee you can't move in either direction as effectively.
I have no problem with kneeling with no one on and less than two strikes, but as soon as the situation arises where you must be able to block a ball, you need to get in the correct position.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:30 am to doubleb
quote:1 us to catch the ball moving mitt into zone versus setting mitt as target then moving it off target. Umps can see come better and must call zone versus showing mitt movement towards leaving the zone.
and then bring it back up fast to catch the ball? What is the purpose of doing that?
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:33 am to terriblegreen
quote:this is false
Anyone who has played catcher knows you can move and push off to either direction when in the squatting position. If you are on one knee you can't move in either direction as effectively.
Moving toward or away from the kickstand is a better blocking reaction and efficiency
The only drop off is what would generally be a wild pitch well outside the catchers box.
Look I am over 50. My kid catches and I argued w him for years. Then I researched it. I also watch the best young catchers around and blocks and controlled blocks are better than ever
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:37 am to Choupique19
quote:
The first catcher I remember doing this was either Benito Santiago or Sandy Alomar with the Padres back in the day. They used to do that with no runners on base. Once a batter reached first base, they got off their knee
They did it all the time. Not just with the bases open. I’ve watched the padres my entire life.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:38 am to Lizrdman9
quote:I can tell you that from a macro level that he would in all likelihood be worse conventional
Please rewatch the game last night and tell me Neal is an elite receiving catcher from a knee.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:39 am to tigerfoot
quote:
1 us to catch the ball moving mitt into zone versus setting mitt as target then moving it off target. Umps can see come better and must call zone versus showing mitt movement towards leaving the zone.
I had guessed it was something like that.
We need to improve at it. We are missing a lot of pitches.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:40 am to DonJuanDaMiles
quote:the mlb and ncaa catchers with best pop times and best receivers are all knee down guys.
They did it all the time. Not just with the bases open. I’ve watched the padres my entire life.
I had the pleasure of watching one of the best HS catchers I’ve seen this last weekend he had knee down and a modified kick stand set up. He was a stud.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:44 am to dukeg7213
quote:
On one knee with runners on base limits mobility, blocking, and throw downs and it’s been evident all season long for LSU.
Neal also does private lessons for the Knights travel program so it’s also being taught by him.
This is why I love this board. A random internet poster knows better than the best minds at every level of baseball.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:46 am to doubleb
quote:
What about the way our catchers give the target, then they drop their mitt to the ground, and then bring it back up fast to catch the ball?
What is the purpose of doing that?
Supposedly to frame low pitches better. I'm not sure if anyone has studied the effectiveness of it but the theory makes sense
Top tier NCAA-MLB pitchers don't need to see a target as they throw. Once a pitch is called, they know where their spot is.
Neal having his throwing hand vulnerable all the time was a way bigger problem than knee down.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:47 am to doubleb
I agree it shouldn’t be done if runners are on base.
My son is a catcher here in Texas for his high school and travel team. For him it achieves three things: gets target lower in zone, gives the umpire a bigger window and gives the catcher a rest.
Have to realize the catchers will catch 3-5 games a week in high school (especially early in season when playing tourneys). Only 3 per week in district; however, these are usually high stress/intensity games. Furthermore, many high school kids have weight training before school and football workouts during football/lunch. So fatigue is a real issue.
My son is a catcher here in Texas for his high school and travel team. For him it achieves three things: gets target lower in zone, gives the umpire a bigger window and gives the catcher a rest.
Have to realize the catchers will catch 3-5 games a week in high school (especially early in season when playing tourneys). Only 3 per week in district; however, these are usually high stress/intensity games. Furthermore, many high school kids have weight training before school and football workouts during football/lunch. So fatigue is a real issue.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:50 am to tigerfoot
quote:
Look I am over 50. My kid catches and I argued w him for years. Then I researched it. I also watch the best young catchers around and blocks and controlled blocks are better than ever
We agree to disagree. I caught for 10 years and from the knee was 100% less effective for me. I was only on my knee when blocking wasn't necessary. Maybe the kids today are better athletes. Maybe if you practice more at blocking from you knee you can become effective. But from personal experience it is easier to move from the squatted position.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:54 am to Choupique19
My son just started learning to catch (he’s 10.) He’s being taught to be on one knee if no runners on base. Also being taught to show target, then glove down as also mentioned.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:55 am to terriblegreen
Fair enough
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:58 am to dukeg7213
quote:
Neal also does private lessons for the Knights travel program so it’s also being taught by him
Well my nephew has been the starting catcher for every Knights team he's been on since 8u and has never been taught to get on a knee. Must be the Knights in the BR area only.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 9:00 am to tigerfoot
quote:
The only drop off is what would generally be a wild pitch well outside the catchers box.
We have had many go right under the glove between our catchers’ legs, two of them last night. The physics of moving down from a stance and jamming the glove to the ground help close that gap as opposed starting on a knee and the glove has a natural instinct to rise up off the ground.
You can argue want the MLB catchers are able to do from one knee, but the LSU catchers are horrible at it and should go back to what has worked for over 100 years.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 9:04 am to doubleb
quote:
What about the way our catchers give the target, then they drop their mitt to the ground, and then bring it back up fast to catch the ball?
What is the purpose of doing that?
I do know the answer to this.
It presents a constantly moving target to get more strikes called by umpires. It gives a short amount of more time to allow a catcher to frame borderline pitches and coerce umps to call them strikes. If a catcher frames during the pitcher's motion and the ball comes in off target, but still a strike, the ump may think the pitcher missed his spot and call it a ball.
It's all to get over on the umpire calling balls and strikes.
There's a good YouTube video out there somewhere that breaks it down. I watched it a couple years ago when I noticed mlb catchers doing this.
This post was edited on 5/8/24 at 9:11 am
Posted on 5/8/24 at 9:09 am to dukeg7213
Tony Pena was the first guy I saw do it, and that was more than 40 years ago. Probably to ease wear and tear on the knees, plus you can sit down. Probably a combo of injury prevention and laziness.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 9:32 am to tigerfoot
Tigerfoot
Help me understand.
What you are saying is from the knee (I agree is a great receiving position) he is a poor receiver of the baseball currently. As displayed all year.
Conventionally he would be even worse receiving (not sure I know what that looks like)... But if there is the possibility of him not allowing 4 balls per nine innings to get through the wickets and cost you bases/ runs. Wouldn't it be prudent in situational baseball to attempt to give yourself a chance to not cost the team runs. Especially if you are not an elite receiver??
I guess the most frustrating part is not just the deflected fastballs off the glove that he has issues getting to because he is anchored, it is the 0-2 61-foot slider that he knows is getting buried by Guidry that ultimately, he whiffs on and allows an extra base runner when the ball never leaves the framework of his body.
Help me understand.
What you are saying is from the knee (I agree is a great receiving position) he is a poor receiver of the baseball currently. As displayed all year.
Conventionally he would be even worse receiving (not sure I know what that looks like)... But if there is the possibility of him not allowing 4 balls per nine innings to get through the wickets and cost you bases/ runs. Wouldn't it be prudent in situational baseball to attempt to give yourself a chance to not cost the team runs. Especially if you are not an elite receiver??
I guess the most frustrating part is not just the deflected fastballs off the glove that he has issues getting to because he is anchored, it is the 0-2 61-foot slider that he knows is getting buried by Guidry that ultimately, he whiffs on and allows an extra base runner when the ball never leaves the framework of his body.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 9:36 am to coolpapaboze
quote:
The first catcher I remember doing this was either Benito Santiago or Sandy Alomar with the Padres back in the day. They sort of got away with it because they could throw runners out from that slouching position
Benito Santiago once threw me out and I was on the couch watching the game on tv.
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