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re: Lefties: What excites you about Democrat policies?
Posted on 7/21/21 at 10:08 pm to burger bearcat
Posted on 7/21/21 at 10:08 pm to burger bearcat
quote:
So to set the record clear. You are cool with immigrants coming over via illegal entry? Forget about your economic ideas (which are terrible), why do you want them jumping the border that is controlled by the Cartel and sex slave traders?
As someone who leans more neoliberal, I'd have no problem with illegal immigration from an economic perspective. It's very cheap labor that means we can have cheaper goods and low-skilled services. However, as a society, I don't think illegal immigration is fair on those who immigrated legally which is why I tend to be against illegal immigration. Nor do I think a society can function if borders are completely porous with no vetting.
I would much prefer them coming over legally, which is why I'm in favor of loosening up immigration rules and making it easier to get a greencard. Make sure they're safe and let them in legally would be my preference. I've always been an advocate for increasing legal immigration. I'm also an advocate for increasing high-skilled immigration as well.
American fertility rates are declining, which means we're not having enough kids to replace ourselves. Immigration is a tool to address that. In a world determined by economic might, population is a big driver of the size of an economy and the US needs more people to keep pace with China.
I've not really mentioned any economic ideas so not sure how you can say so confidently that my economic ideas are terrible. You've not really provided any robust arguments for why or anything.
quote:
Why wouldn't we want to tackle this problem and get these men to work doing these jobs and finding a career in?
Again, there aren't a fixed number of jobs in the economy. It's why I'm in favor of increasing education so people can 'upskill' and get better jobs.
Low-skilled immigration is an opportunity for native workers to up-skill. Low-skilled immigrant workers will do low-skilled work while natives can become skilled and do more skilled work.
This post was edited on 7/21/21 at 10:12 pm
1
Posted on 7/21/21 at 10:15 pm to Fat Bastard
What an eloquent, educated reply.
I'm not in favor of open borders.
I'm in favor of increasing legal immigration. There's a distinction.
I'm also not in favor of raising many taxes. I'd much rather keep income taxes and corporation taxes the same.
If there was a party that lowered taxes, increased immigration, socially left-wing policies and kept spending to a reasonable level, I'd vote for them. There's no party like that so I'm left with voting for a party I have the least policy differences on.
I'm not in favor of open borders.
I'm in favor of increasing legal immigration. There's a distinction.
I'm also not in favor of raising many taxes. I'd much rather keep income taxes and corporation taxes the same.
If there was a party that lowered taxes, increased immigration, socially left-wing policies and kept spending to a reasonable level, I'd vote for them. There's no party like that so I'm left with voting for a party I have the least policy differences on.
This post was edited on 7/21/21 at 10:25 pm
Posted on 7/21/21 at 10:17 pm to nonu121
quote:
nonu121
Globalist trash.
Posted on 7/21/21 at 11:09 pm to nonu121
Your entire argument falls apart on your false assumption that native born Americans who are low skilled are out there "upskilling." I know there is no fixed amount of work, in fact the global corporations you favor have replaced many low skilled jobs with automation, and the resulting out of work low skilled Americans are not upskilling -- they are staying at home collecting unemployment, and of course the Biden administration is printing money and sending them checks on top of that. There is zero evidence that low skilled American workers are upskilling to any meaningful degree. Are you one of those liberals who is going to tell some uneducated person to get off the couch and learn how to code? Or go get a high tech green job? Again, this is a false assumption to justify the reckless and irresponsible immigration policies of the democrat party.
And the type of low skilled, uneducated immigrants Biden is taking do not grow the economy in any meaningful way other than more mouths to feed and shelter, which means more run down blighted communities and dollar stores, more junked out cars and paycheck lenders. This is no way to build or maintain a great civilization. It would help if we took immigrants from countries with histories of achievement and nation building like we did 100-150 years ago. But that sure is not what we are taking these days.
And the type of low skilled, uneducated immigrants Biden is taking do not grow the economy in any meaningful way other than more mouths to feed and shelter, which means more run down blighted communities and dollar stores, more junked out cars and paycheck lenders. This is no way to build or maintain a great civilization. It would help if we took immigrants from countries with histories of achievement and nation building like we did 100-150 years ago. But that sure is not what we are taking these days.
Posted on 7/21/21 at 11:47 pm to Tall Tiger
quote:
Your entire argument falls apart on your false assumption that native born Americans who are low skilled are out there "upskilling."
I mean they are up-skilling.
Native young workers are going onto college educations at much higher rates and graduation rates have increased significantly.
It should be made easier to up-skill but there is significant evidence of up-skilling. Graduation rates have doubled over the past few decades.
quote:
they are staying at home collecting unemployment, and of course the Biden administration is printing money and sending them checks on top of that. There is zero evidence that low skilled American workers are upskilling to any meaningful degree.
In Economics, the job market is usually done through the 'search' model.
LINK
Biden wants to increase the minimum wage, which will counteract the increase in unemployment benefits. If the unemployment benefits are less than the minimum wage, people will work.
In any case, I don't agree with large levels of unemployment benefits nor have I been an advocate for them nor do I believe in a high minimum wage. It's one of the things I tolerate from a Biden administration
Most low-skilled jobs haven't been automated and they won't for the near future. If it could be automated for cheap now, it would have been. People have been going on about automation for years but new jobs will be created from automation if it ever occurs (and those upskilled natives will be able to take advantage of it).
quote:
Are you one of those liberals who is going to tell some uneducated person to get off the couch and learn how to code? Or go get a high tech green job? Again, this is a false assumption to justify the reckless and irresponsible immigration policies of the democrat party.
I don't really believe there will be a shortage of low-skilled jobs. In fact, most Economists predict the number of low-skilled jobs will increase as well as high-skilled jobs.
From low-skilled cleaners to carehome staff, most projections say that low-skilled jobs will actually increase in the next few decades.
It's middle-skilled jobs that have been hollowed out and that's just natural economics at play - no company can afford to manufacture in the US when it's cheaper to do elsewhere.
Besides, I thought Republicans were the party of personal responsibility.
quote:
And the type of low skilled, uneducated immigrants Biden is taking do not grow the economy in any meaningful way other than more mouths to feed and shelter, which means more run down blighted communities and dollar stores, more junked out cars and paycheck lenders. This is no way to build or maintain a great civilization. It would help if we took immigrants from countries with histories of achievement and nation building like we did 100-150 years ago. But that sure is not what we are taking these days.
This is again, your opinion. You're welcome to have it but you can't present it as actual fact.
And for what it's worth, I'm in favor of a skills-based immigration system. A system that selects immigrants that we need based on our skills shortages would be fine by me. It's one of the policies I actually agreed with Trump on BUT I didn't agree with him on reducing numbers.
This post was edited on 7/21/21 at 11:52 pm
Posted on 7/22/21 at 12:00 am to nonu121
quote:
Labor prices are much lower in China and they can manufacture at cheaper prices.
Trying to spin forced child labor / slavery as a positive and we should take advantage of it
Posted on 7/22/21 at 12:30 am to KG5989
quote:
Trying to spin forced child labor / slavery as a positive and we should take advantage of it
It's not forced child labor.
Companies crack down on any incidences of that.
Manufacturing has actually helped China industrialize significantly. China is going to turn into a service-based country in the next few decades thanks to manufacturing going over there.
China has gone from a backwater rural nation to a nation that's approaching middle-income. If you actually spoke to a Chinese person who works in a factory, you'd find that they're grateful for the job. Manufacturing jobs beat working on a field for many of them.
Labor prices are lower in China because the cost of living in China is lower.
People who manufacture goods going to America are adult workers who work for a better wage than they would working on a farm.
So good one because it sounds like you know nothing about Chinese manufacturing. And there are incidents of child labor, nobody's denying that, but companies are making significant efforts to crack down on it.
It's cheap labor because the cost of living is lower, not because of child labor.
This post was edited on 7/22/21 at 12:34 am
Posted on 7/22/21 at 2:34 am to nonu121
quote:
economically capitalist,
What?
This post was edited on 7/22/21 at 3:04 am
Posted on 7/22/21 at 2:55 am to nonu121
I’m just a blue collar guy but even I can see that you didn’t give any examples of democrat policies that you like.
Posted on 7/22/21 at 4:24 am to nonu121
quote:
1) Strengthening the Affordable Care Act + Introducing a public option
Raping the middle class to give cheap insurance to the democrat base isn't a valid solution.
quote:
2) Increasing tax credits for millions of Americans. Expanding the child tax credit for ordinary Americans
You complained about Trump lowering taxes but not spending and then turned around and praised biden for doing the same thing.
quote:
3) Invest money in infrastructure up to a total value of $2 trillion. Creating millions of good paying jobs that way.
The majority of biden's infrastructure plan doesn't go to infrastructure.
quote:
4) Investing in clean energy solutions, moving America towards a pollution-free power sector.
That's great and all, but doing it before green technology can handle the energy needs of the country is dumb, which is what the dems are doing.
quote:
5) Biden's foreign policy experience appealed to me over Trump, who said whatever came to his head.
You pick the guy involved in using his governmental power to line his own pockets and who is being laughed at by world leaders over the guy that reworked trade deals and had several peace treaties signed. Makes sense.
quote:
And quite frankly, at least Biden had a platform. I just want a return to the status quo. I didn't like Trump, didn't like his nationalist rhetoric, didn't like economic protectionism, and quite frankly the guy was irascible.
So, you prefer a guy that doesn't put the country first, and you base your decisions on emotion.
Posted on 7/22/21 at 4:27 am to burger bearcat
What about less freedom?
Posted on 7/22/21 at 4:28 am to nonu121
quote:
I see no advantages in bringing manufacturing back to the US - it just means goods will be very expensive, which is bad for the rest of us.
You didn't learn anything from the PPE shortage? Automation will also lower costs. Thinking the country will be better off being reliant on foreign manufacturing is extremely short-sided. Sometimes it's just better to pay a little more for something than to be under the thumb of a foreign power.
Posted on 7/22/21 at 4:41 am to nonu121
quote:
As I said, I'd be a Republican if Mitt Romney was running.
So you are a RINO
Posted on 7/22/21 at 4:46 am to nonu121
You support strengthening Obama care? You lose a ton of credibility here.
As someone in Healthcare with irons in many fires Obamacare is not at all well received and generally loathed in the medical community.
Granted the repubs are way too linked to big pharma to do a damn thing about it but as far as quality and affordability go the ACA has been a disaster. I can't express vehemently enough how awful it has been.
As someone in Healthcare with irons in many fires Obamacare is not at all well received and generally loathed in the medical community.
Granted the repubs are way too linked to big pharma to do a damn thing about it but as far as quality and affordability go the ACA has been a disaster. I can't express vehemently enough how awful it has been.
Posted on 7/22/21 at 4:56 am to nonu121
quote:
1) Protectionism/Tariffs aren't a solution to anything. Anyone who took basic microeconomics would know this and most Economists are against it for a reason. Trump also increased deficits pretty significantly because he didn't cut spending when he cut taxes.
It's not free trade if only one side plays by the rules. The tax cuts actually increased tax revenue. I agree that spending is a problem, but that is mostly on Congress.
quote:
2) Trump handled Coronavirus very, very poorly.
No he didn't. You should stop listening to msm propaganda. Besides removing red tape for the vaccine, he actively worked to purchase PPE when our weak manufacturing base couldn't match demand. He also provided support to any state that asked. Even democrat governors admitted this. He supported treatments for covid instead of just waiting on a vaccine and hoping people don't die in the meantime.
He let states determine their own lockdown procedures. Maybe this is why you think he failed, and you just want to live in a nanny state.
quote:
3) I'm not a working-class guy. Republicans are morphing into a party that caters to blue-collar workers, ignoring that most of us don't work in blue-collar roles. Their policies don't appeal to me and I'm not in their target demographics.
Lower taxes and more freedom don't appeal to you? Do the democrat policies of not prosecuting crimes, supporting violent rioters, and pushing an anti-white agenda appeal to you?
quote:
4) I'm socially left-wing. I think abortion should be accessible for those who need it.
Need or want?
quote:
his entire platform boiled down to 'bringing back jobs' which isn't coherent policy.
Bringing back jobs like manufacturing that provide a decent salary to the working-class is very coherent. You're just stretching now.
quote:
7) Republicans had no plan for healthcare. They spent years trying to repeal Obamacare and had nothing to replace it.
It doesn't need to be replaced. Healthcare was cheaper for most people before Obama fricked it up.
quote:
8) Instability is bad for any financial firm. Trump was a liability, not a benefit. You never knew what he would tweet and who he would tweet at.
It's much better to have a president that is predictable because you know he can and will be bought off. For someone who claims to work in the banking industry, you'd think you would have noticed how the economy kept improving under Trump's "instability." quote:
Immigration is necessary because the US has an ageing population - worker-dependent ratios are decreasing and fertility rates are declining. If anything, we need more immigration to stop the decline. I've been looking at projections and the labor force will decline, not increase in size over the next few decades. That's bad for business and bad for growth.
Millions of uneducated, unskilled illegals are not the workers we need, particularly when you consider the service economy you want the US to be. AI and automation will solve the aging population problem much more effectively than unfettered immigration.
quote:
The Democrats, on the other hand, published a coherent platform in 2020.
The "everything Trump supports is bad, even if we supported it before he did" platform really resonates with you, eh? I'm not really surprised.
quote:
What I'm most excited about is having stable leadership rather than the erratic nature of the previous president.
More emotions over logic. Name the erratic behavior that hurt the country. You can't. You're a joke if you think biden is stable. He has trouble even reading off a teleprompter. Did you forget the times he wanted to fight people the few times he actually campaigned?
Posted on 7/22/21 at 5:23 am to nonu121
quote:
I really should be voting for the Republicans so that tells you something.
It really does tell us something.
Posted on 7/22/21 at 5:31 am to nonu121
Nonu, I agree with nothing you say, but thanks for being a stand up guy and stating your position. You say that you agree with open boarders. Are you aware that the US leads any other country in allowing legal immigration annually?
Posted on 7/22/21 at 5:31 am to nonu121
quote:
It took 20 years from protectionist Europe in the 1890s for WW1 to happen
Yeah, that’s is because world geopolitical dynamics in 2021 are exactly the same as they were in 1890.
No one is going to war over tariffs, dumbass. We might eventually go to war with China because they’re total pieces of shite who have no regard for human rights. But even that is doubtful given the fact that Americans like you are seemingly okay with China running roughshod over the world so long as you get your cheap flat screen.
The most likely scenario is, the scenario that your appeasement attitude helps facilitate, is China eventually upstages the US economically and militarily.
You won’t like living a world dominated by the CCP.
Posted on 7/22/21 at 6:10 am to VADawg
That’s because there are no democratic policies. Everything is based around fear and discourse. The goal posts are moved to create fake catastrophe and then the policy responds. Rinse, repeat.
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