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Message
3.5 ton AC installation/quote question
Posted on 3/20/20 at 11:06 am
Posted on 3/20/20 at 11:06 am
I've received 3 quotes to replace my 3.5 ton central AC/gas furnace.
Price and equipment all tightly clustered.
2 of the 3 have told me I need to add an additional air return as my existing 20x20 is not large enough.
The third guy says not necessary. While slightly undersized it is not an air supply issue it is a filtration issue and he can add an additional filter under the unit that would make sure I'm getting proper filtration. This supplemental filter would only need changing every 6 to 8 months.
Does any of this make sense?
Thanks in advance for responses.
Price and equipment all tightly clustered.
2 of the 3 have told me I need to add an additional air return as my existing 20x20 is not large enough.
The third guy says not necessary. While slightly undersized it is not an air supply issue it is a filtration issue and he can add an additional filter under the unit that would make sure I'm getting proper filtration. This supplemental filter would only need changing every 6 to 8 months.
Does any of this make sense?
Thanks in advance for responses.
Posted on 3/20/20 at 11:41 am to Tiger985
What was the price range? Will be needing a new 3ton in the next year or two. Hopefully not sooner 

Posted on 3/20/20 at 12:09 pm to Tiger985
The guys that said you need a larger return vent or more return vent capacity are correct. The current guideline is 400 cubic feet of return air per ton per minute (range: 350 to 450 cfm).
3.5 ton HVAC x 400 cubic ft per min = 1400 cubic feet of return air per min required
Your current return vent is 20 x 20 = 400 sq inches. A 1 inch thick filter will move an estimated 2 cubic feet of air per minute; therefore, 400 sq in x 2 cu ft air/min = 800 cu ft air per min capacity of your existing air return vent.
So you are short 600 cubic feet of return air per min with your current air return vent (1400 - 800 = 600) with a 3.5 ton unit. One of of the worst things you can do is starve a HVAC of proper return air flow - loud noise, high external static pressure, reduced cooling capacity, can shorten the life of the equipment, etc.
They can enlarge the current return air vent or simply add a second return air vent in another location to get you the 1400 cu ft of return air you need. Seems like they would just add a second return vent, like 18 in x 18 in (= 648 cfm) in another location of the house that provides 600 cubic feet of air per min.
ETA: The standard 1 inch filter in the return grill’s primary purpose is to protect the HVAC equipment in the air handler, not improving air quality for the inhabitants. The thicker filter, as an add on item, attached to the air handler will provide some air quality improvements benefits for the occupants, but it won’t increase the volume of return air to the air handler. The issue is not one of filtration, it’s getting the proper amount of return air volume through the air handler.
3.5 ton HVAC x 400 cubic ft per min = 1400 cubic feet of return air per min required
Your current return vent is 20 x 20 = 400 sq inches. A 1 inch thick filter will move an estimated 2 cubic feet of air per minute; therefore, 400 sq in x 2 cu ft air/min = 800 cu ft air per min capacity of your existing air return vent.
So you are short 600 cubic feet of return air per min with your current air return vent (1400 - 800 = 600) with a 3.5 ton unit. One of of the worst things you can do is starve a HVAC of proper return air flow - loud noise, high external static pressure, reduced cooling capacity, can shorten the life of the equipment, etc.
They can enlarge the current return air vent or simply add a second return air vent in another location to get you the 1400 cu ft of return air you need. Seems like they would just add a second return vent, like 18 in x 18 in (= 648 cfm) in another location of the house that provides 600 cubic feet of air per min.
ETA: The standard 1 inch filter in the return grill’s primary purpose is to protect the HVAC equipment in the air handler, not improving air quality for the inhabitants. The thicker filter, as an add on item, attached to the air handler will provide some air quality improvements benefits for the occupants, but it won’t increase the volume of return air to the air handler. The issue is not one of filtration, it’s getting the proper amount of return air volume through the air handler.
This post was edited on 3/21/20 at 8:46 am
Posted on 3/20/20 at 7:16 pm to jimbeam
quote:
Will be needing a new 3ton in the next year or two. Hopefully not sooner
I ordered a 3 1/2 ton unit,seer16 and air handler on line. Cost like $2200 total shipped. With a 10K electrical heating. Gas was about $200 more. 10 year warranty if you have a pro install it. I installed it and had a friend do the vacuum and finish installing it. Gave him $300 for his trouble.
Quotes a had for the same system was around $7800 to $8500.


Posted on 3/20/20 at 9:21 pm to fishfighter
quote:
I ordered a 3 1/2 ton unit,seer16 and air handler on line. Cost like $2200 total shipped. With a 10K electrical heating.
Where from? What brand?
Posted on 3/20/20 at 9:42 pm to CrawDude
Wish I could give more upvotes to this post.
Posted on 3/21/20 at 6:29 am to Major Dutch Schaefer
quote:
Where from? What brand?
Is a Ruud system.
LINK
Was very easy to call and order everything. That $2200 was just for the air handler, heating, copper piping, and outside condenser. Duct work, ect ran every thing up to around a total $3800. Like I said, this was a new installation of everything.
Oh, my buddy could NOT buy it local at that cost.

This post was edited on 3/21/20 at 6:31 am
Posted on 3/21/20 at 11:41 am to Tiger985
quote:
The third guy says not necessary.
Take this guy out of the mix and go with one of the other two.
Posted on 3/21/20 at 12:29 pm to ashy larry
So I made a decision on a guy and he emails me this this morning.
"We are reaching out to inform you of an issue we’ve had with our supplier. They did not have the matching Carrier furnace to go with the system we originally quoted you.
They do however have a compatible Bryant furnace, which is also made by Carrier. To make up for the inconvenience, they are willing to provide a 16 SEER Carrier condenser at the same cost (14 SEER was originally quoted), effectively upgrading your systems efficiency and value for the price we originally quoted. Your warranty will all stay the same. The only difference is that the inside and outside units will be different brands.
Our professional recommendation is this is a good thing and there is no actual downside for you. We can get these units today and stay on track for install tomorrow. If you want to wait for the lower 14 SEER Carrier furnace as originally quoted, installation won’t be until Wednesday at the earliest when additional inventory comes in.
Please let us know how you’d like to proceed."
Does this seem OK?
Any issues with pairing the Bryant/Carrier components short or long term?
I want to make sure I'm not getting the Family Truckster in Metallic Pea.
"We are reaching out to inform you of an issue we’ve had with our supplier. They did not have the matching Carrier furnace to go with the system we originally quoted you.
They do however have a compatible Bryant furnace, which is also made by Carrier. To make up for the inconvenience, they are willing to provide a 16 SEER Carrier condenser at the same cost (14 SEER was originally quoted), effectively upgrading your systems efficiency and value for the price we originally quoted. Your warranty will all stay the same. The only difference is that the inside and outside units will be different brands.
Our professional recommendation is this is a good thing and there is no actual downside for you. We can get these units today and stay on track for install tomorrow. If you want to wait for the lower 14 SEER Carrier furnace as originally quoted, installation won’t be until Wednesday at the earliest when additional inventory comes in.
Please let us know how you’d like to proceed."
Does this seem OK?
Any issues with pairing the Bryant/Carrier components short or long term?
I want to make sure I'm not getting the Family Truckster in Metallic Pea.
This post was edited on 3/21/20 at 12:37 pm
Posted on 3/21/20 at 2:15 pm to Tiger985
Unless I’m missing something sounds like a “win” for you. Bryant and Carrier are the same company, likely the Bryant Furnace is identical/nearly identical to the Carrier Furnace, and a good chance it’s made in the same factory, so there would be no pairing issues.
The “win” is they are going to upgrade your your condensing unit to a SEER 16 from a SEER 14 at no cost for the inconvenience to you. However, I would ask them if the evaporator coil in the air handler will be a matching coil for the upgraded SEER 16 condensing unit so that you get the SEER 16 efficiency. If not a matching evaporator coil, everything will work fine but you won’t get the SEER 16 efficiency just likely the SEER 14 efficiency.
HVAC gas furnaces are so reliable they rarely ever fail or give one problems, and the gas furnace is usually warranted for 20 years, the AC for 10 years. The Bryant Air Handler/Furnace will likely be a different color housing and certainly have Bryant label, but that’s in your attic or closet anyway.
Again, unless I’m missing something I personally would go with their offer b/c you are going get an upgraded, more efficient system at no cost to you.
The “win” is they are going to upgrade your your condensing unit to a SEER 16 from a SEER 14 at no cost for the inconvenience to you. However, I would ask them if the evaporator coil in the air handler will be a matching coil for the upgraded SEER 16 condensing unit so that you get the SEER 16 efficiency. If not a matching evaporator coil, everything will work fine but you won’t get the SEER 16 efficiency just likely the SEER 14 efficiency.
HVAC gas furnaces are so reliable they rarely ever fail or give one problems, and the gas furnace is usually warranted for 20 years, the AC for 10 years. The Bryant Air Handler/Furnace will likely be a different color housing and certainly have Bryant label, but that’s in your attic or closet anyway.
Again, unless I’m missing something I personally would go with their offer b/c you are going get an upgraded, more efficient system at no cost to you.
This post was edited on 3/21/20 at 2:35 pm
Posted on 3/21/20 at 3:22 pm to CrawDude
I appreciate your responses.
This board is a great resource.
This board is a great resource.
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