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Electric whole home (2 bathrooms) tankless water heater experiences?

Posted on 4/30/19 at 8:09 am
Posted by CAD703X
Liberty Island
Member since Jul 2008
86585 posts
Posted on 4/30/19 at 8:09 am
It looks like the Stiebel are the best units from what I can tell and I'm looking at the 29 model which, if I'm reading the chart correctly (I'm in TN) means my water is 62 degrees and this can keep up with 4.6 gpm (2 showers at the same time).

LINK




My 80 gallon tank is probably 20+ years old and we are rennovating our master bathroom so the last thing I want is a problem with hot water after we've done all this work but I don't know if I should just go with another 80 gallon tank or try going tankless.

TIA
Posted by ItNeverRains
Offugeaux
Member since Oct 2007
28166 posts
Posted on 4/30/19 at 8:13 am to
call American HVAC in Fairview. They are solid, office right past 100/96. We’ve never installed electric always use gas but I know you are on propane where you live
This post was edited on 4/30/19 at 8:17 am
Posted by convertedtiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2010
2787 posts
Posted on 4/30/19 at 8:13 am to
Electric tankless heaters are NOT efficient at all. Your electric bill could skyrocket. They are great if you have gas but are a power sump with electric heat. Tanked heaters have come a long way in the last 20 years.
Posted by CAD703X
Liberty Island
Member since Jul 2008
86585 posts
Posted on 4/30/19 at 8:23 am to
quote:

call American HVAC in Fairview. They are solid, office right past 100/96. We’ve never installed electric always use gas but I know you are on propane where you live


i am on propane but the water heater is in the basement under the main living room so i don't think i could vent it easily.

so if the tankless is a bad idea, what about replacing the heating elements in the existing unit vs just swapping it out with a new 80 gallon?
Posted by ItNeverRains
Offugeaux
Member since Oct 2007
28166 posts
Posted on 4/30/19 at 8:26 am to
Move it to the garage and vent it there.
Posted by Hammertime
Will trade dowsing rod for titties
Member since Jan 2012
43031 posts
Posted on 4/30/19 at 8:38 am to
Electric is gonna be very expensive to run, and I don't think you can get more than a 50gal regular one now. You'll need a secondary tank to increase the capacity.

Suggestion is to move the location and put a gas tankless
Posted by Clames
Member since Oct 2010
17746 posts
Posted on 4/30/19 at 9:29 am to
quote:

Electric is gonna be very expensive to run, and I don't think you can get more than a 50gal regular one now.


That's entirely dependent on usage and I've just installed a 90-gallon electric conventional unit for a client, 50, 60, 80 gallon units are easy to find.


So much misinformation in these threads, let me tell you about the electric tankless water heaters I've personally installed and where they make a good choice. First, understand those region maps are very general and you need to measure the actual inlet water temps yourself. A 200A model is probably your limit anyway unless you has a dedicated panel installed.

Installation is not a direct replacement for a tanked water heater, you need several runs of 8/2 wire and each run needs its own breaker in the panel, need to see if you have room in your service panel for three 40A two-pole breakers for the 29Kw model. This alone is often a deal breaker because there is not enough room in the existing service panel and the cost of installation runs people off.

Tankless heaters in general like to be centrally located or located as close to where they'll be supplying hot water as possible. Electric ones more so than gas which is why they make a better choice for POU than whole house. I've installed single and double units for whole house uses and they worked absolutely fine though they were attic mounted and could be located almost directly over kitchen or bathroom.

Power usage while heating water is variable with modern units, they regulate the power they need by themselves so they aren't drawing the same power for a sink vs the washing machine filling. That said, you should check your plumbing appliances to see their GPM ratings. Also, at full load even a smaller tankless water heater can have the service panel humming from the current draw and that can be an issue depending on where that panel is located.

The main advantage to these units is flexibility of installation, you can damn near put them anywhere you can supply electricity and water and since you can hang them on the wall or in cabinets or closets you can gain a extra corner of space. This very reason was why one of my clients chose tankless electric units to replace two conventional heaters, they gained the room for a big work bench area in their garage.
Posted by CAD703X
Liberty Island
Member since Jul 2008
86585 posts
Posted on 4/30/19 at 10:18 am to
i did notice the 200A, 3 dedicated 40a breaker and 8/2 wire requirements for the 29.

i'm still not 100% sure what to do here. we set the 80 gallon to 140 degrees and its still running out fairly quickly.

we put an ecoboost (waste of time & money) on the pipe going out but it did absolutely nothing but piss everyone off becaues it seemed to make the water colder FASTER.

i think the plumber said he was seeing about 3 gpm coming through but since he's here today working on the bathroom i can ask him again.

clames; what do you suggest for my situation? the 80 gallon tank i have now is defintely 25-30 years old and the price of new 80 gallon tanks is terrifying (like $1500+)

ETA Clames; here is my layout:

50 gallon tank:
- basement bathroom (below ground level, uses sump pump)
- mop sink, washer
- dishwasher
- kitchen sink
- kitchen bathroom

80 gallon tank:
- master bath
- hall bath
- bar sink


No problem on the 50 (we replaced that 2-3 years ago) its the 80 that's the issue. We recently had my mom move in with us and with the master bath being rennovated SEVEN people are sharing the one tub/shower in the hall bath right now. Not sure if that's adding to the problem but it never seems to get hot these days.
This post was edited on 4/30/19 at 10:33 am
Posted by notsince98
KC, MO
Member since Oct 2012
19966 posts
Posted on 4/30/19 at 11:44 am to
Is your current water heater electric or propane?

Propane is going to be a much cheaper option than electric for energy consumption unless you have an unusual dichotomy where you are.

Is there not an unfinished basement area where you can vent out the side of the house? It does not have to go vertical out of the house.
Posted by Hammertime
Will trade dowsing rod for titties
Member since Jan 2012
43031 posts
Posted on 4/30/19 at 11:51 am to
Do you have hard water?
Posted by CAD703X
Liberty Island
Member since Jul 2008
86585 posts
Posted on 4/30/19 at 11:51 am to
I've had a couple contractors look at it and say propane isn't feasible. The current tank is dead center under the house and even the garage is 3/4 underground having been built into the side of a hill.

I could move it since we don't need a space for an 80 gallon monster but the pipes are all in the crawl space on the side of the house using this heater...

I have an unusual layout.
Posted by CAD703X
Liberty Island
Member since Jul 2008
86585 posts
Posted on 4/30/19 at 11:51 am to
quote:

hard water?
yes we do
Posted by Clames
Member since Oct 2010
17746 posts
Posted on 4/30/19 at 12:11 pm to
You've got kind of a difficult situation, how long do you plan to have so many people in the house? Is the basement bathroom a half- or full-? What is the first hour rating of the existing water heaters? That 80-gallon unit is essentially only dealing with one bathroom right now and as long as people aren't taking long shower after shower in it, it should be keeping up. Then again it might not if it's a lower end single element unit that's full of scale. I'd also check to make sure the old tank is plumbed properly, I've seen several instances of people complaining they didn't have enough hot water no matter maxing out the temp setting on the tank only to see that it was plumbed backwards. You have a situation where a larger electric tankless to replace the 80-gallon unit is a good idea, mostly because of the high peak demand usage and you don't need the GPM surge capacity that washers need since they are on the 50-gallon unit. Do you know if the hot water plumbing is insulated?
Posted by notsince98
KC, MO
Member since Oct 2012
19966 posts
Posted on 4/30/19 at 12:27 pm to
quote:

I've had a couple contractors look at it and say propane isn't feasible.


Did they give any reasons? Many contractors consider things they don't want to do as not feasible.

The only thing I could think of is maybe not enough elevation to support flue sloping due to the long runs to the sides.

I'm taking it the current 80 gallon is electric?
Posted by CAD703X
Liberty Island
Member since Jul 2008
86585 posts
Posted on 4/30/19 at 1:58 pm to
Any way to clean the scale? Why are 80 gallon tanks expensive? Seems like they were $300 just a few years back.
Posted by fishfighter
RIP
Member since Apr 2008
40026 posts
Posted on 4/30/19 at 7:20 pm to
40 gallon tank will run you over $375 now.
Posted by philabuck
NE Ohio
Member since Sep 2008
10389 posts
Posted on 4/30/19 at 8:14 pm to
quote:

Any way to clean the scale?


Flush the tank every 6 to 12 months.

quote:

i'm still not 100% sure what to do here. we set the 80 gallon to 140 degrees and its still running out fairly quickly


You sure both elements are working?
Posted by Clames
Member since Oct 2010
17746 posts
Posted on 4/30/19 at 8:22 pm to
quote:

Any way to clean the scale? Why are 80 gallon tanks expensive? Seems like they were $300 just a few years back.




You can drain and flush it, you'll have some fun running it to your basement sump though. Problem is that the government efficiency mandates have driven up the costs and made new residential electric water heaters gutless wonders. More insulation and lower powered heating elements means that the first hour ratings have plummeted. A new typical 80-gallon unit might see a first hour rating of 89 gallons where an older one was well into the 90's.
Posted by CAD703X
Liberty Island
Member since Jul 2008
86585 posts
Posted on 5/1/19 at 11:24 am to
quote:

drain and flush it


i'm guessing this is due to the fact the pipes are coming out of the top of the tank (i know nothing about how these things work) and the scale would build up on the bottom..? flushing it using the drain at the bottom would clean it out?

how would i know if both elements were working? is it possible an element becomes less effective over time and could simply be replaced rather than paying FIFTEEN FREAKING HUNDRED DOLLARS for an 80 gallon tank that I swear was $300 2 years ago?
Posted by philabuck
NE Ohio
Member since Sep 2008
10389 posts
Posted on 5/1/19 at 9:33 pm to
Pop both of the panels off and see if the lights are on to start. If it's not leaking it could be the element or thermostat and wouldn't be that expensive to swap out.

The hardest part about an electric water heater is moving the damn thing
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