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re: Fridge Tripping GFCI Breaker

Posted on 6/10/24 at 9:37 pm to
Posted by mdomingue
Lafayette, LA
Member since Nov 2010
37658 posts
Posted on 6/10/24 at 9:37 pm to
quote:

First off. A gfci (ground fault circuit interceptor) senses current going to ground. This is usually about 3 mA for about 15mS. Since most things now a days are made in China, about 1 in 3 gfci receptacles are bad.



It's not an outlet, and it's also not a Ground Fault but an Arc Fault breaker

quote:

Circuit breakers are heat activated


Not all of them. Also, the one he has has diagnostics built in based on another post that is in this thread.

quote:

You say that the circuit is dedicated, are you sure. Have you checked current draw on the wire at circuit breaker?



It's a newer house and the NEC code calls for a refrigerator to be on a dedicated circuit so it almost definitely is.

Posted by mdomingue
Lafayette, LA
Member since Nov 2010
37658 posts
Posted on 6/11/24 at 7:32 am to
Give us an update, there is a chance the issue is the breaker itself. I would also try plugging a fan or a blow drier into the fridge outlet and see if it trips the breaker.

You might also try one of these, you can get it for under $10

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Power-Gear-3-Wire-Receptacle-Tester-50542/206212329?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&srsltid=AfmBOorsNtmvGx-MHuegQtsSzt4NZCqCEsY4xZHTDH5EFsQgsZ4wIUX-Dnw


Or one of theses for under $25

https://www.amazon.com/Receptacle-Electrical-Klein-Tools-RT250/dp/B08QW7K1JJ?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Posted by Lazy But Talented
Member since Aug 2011
14860 posts
Posted on 6/11/24 at 8:20 am to
I have this one and when I plug it into the outlet it reads "CORRECT"



Posted by Dallaswho
Texas
Member since Dec 2023
2440 posts
Posted on 6/11/24 at 8:25 am to
Turns out, internet is riddled with these dual function afci/gfci breakers not getting along with appliances, much more so than just if they were on independent gfi/afi devices.
As before, as long as your kitchen is equipped with 2x afi/gfi branch circuits for small appliances, then you can go with an afci-only breaker for a dedicated refrigerator circuit.
Do kitchen small appliance circuits use gfi breakers or do you have a couple outlets with buttons in there? The separation of afi and gfi on those circuits could explain why the fridge still works on those. Otherwise, wiring issue.
Posted by PistolPete45
Mandeville, LA
Member since Apr 2012
582 posts
Posted on 6/11/24 at 8:29 am to
I had the same issue in my garage, every time the compressor kicked on, boom GFCI outlet tripped, I don't have GFCI breaker however. I ended up rewiring my outlets to make the outlet my garage freezer was on not GFCI protected. There is a reason you don't ever see a GFCI outlet behind a fridge in a kitchen
Posted by Lazy But Talented
Member since Aug 2011
14860 posts
Posted on 6/11/24 at 8:37 am to
I don't want to jinx it, but I vacuumed out the coils and the bottom of the unit last night. I plugged it in about 20 minutes ago and it's still running.
Posted by Lazy But Talented
Member since Aug 2011
14860 posts
Posted on 6/11/24 at 9:38 am to
aaannddd it tripped the breaker after about an hour and a half.
Posted by LSUDad
Still on the move
Member since May 2004
60604 posts
Posted on 6/11/24 at 10:08 am to
quote:

The breaker is GFCI Eaton - CHFN120DF


That's also an arc fault breaker. Arc Fault are not good with changing amps or loads. A vacuum cleaner, fan, etc. Will trip it. Best to pull it out, replace with regular breaker, a GFCI receptacle is ok, but may not be needed on that circuit. Keep the arc fault breaker, they are pricey.
Posted by bbvdd
Memphis, TN
Member since Jun 2009
26883 posts
Posted on 6/11/24 at 1:29 pm to
I have 2 refrigerators inside both on their own dedicated non-gfci outlets.

I have a garage freezer that was on a GFCI. It would constantly trip the GFCI.

I finally had to replace the outlet to a regular outlet.
Posted by mdomingue
Lafayette, LA
Member since Nov 2010
37658 posts
Posted on 6/11/24 at 1:35 pm to
quote:

That's also an arc fault breaker. Arc Fault are not good with changing amps or loads. A vacuum cleaner, fan, etc. Will trip it. Best to pull it out, replace with regular breaker, a GFCI receptacle is ok, but may not be needed on that circuit. Keep the arc fault breaker, they are pricey.



No need for a GFCI for the fridge. Arc Fault breakers are now a code requirement for kitchen circuits. I would consider replacing the circuit breaker with an AFCI breaker but many people do replace them with simple breakers. It will not be an issue until you try to sell the house and probably not even then.
Posted by LSUDad
Still on the move
Member since May 2004
60604 posts
Posted on 6/11/24 at 1:52 pm to
quote:

No need for a GFCI for the fridge. Arc Fault breakers are now a code requirement for kitchen circuits. I would consider replacing the circuit breaker with an AFCI breaker but many people do replace them with simple breakers. It will not be an issue until you try to sell the house and probably not even then.


That's why I tell folks, keep the arc fault breaker, in case they want them installed back. I'd install them back, right before moving out. Then when the problem reoccurs, tell them to call the guy that did the home inspection!
I only put regular breakers and receptacle on a frig, 20 amp.
Posted by Clames
Member since Oct 2010
17749 posts
Posted on 6/11/24 at 1:58 pm to
Generally recommended that fridges and freezers are not put on GFCI-protected circuits.
Posted by Clames
Member since Oct 2010
17749 posts
Posted on 6/11/24 at 2:02 pm to
quote:

I'd install them back, right before moving out. Then when the problem reoccurs, tell them to call the guy that did the home inspection!


Yeah, we take photos so that when stuff like that happens we have proof of who's at fault. Not a smart thing to do unless you want to get caught up in a lawsuit.
Posted by LSUDad
Still on the move
Member since May 2004
60604 posts
Posted on 6/11/24 at 3:04 pm to
quote:

Yeah, we take photos so that when stuff like that happens we have proof of who's at fault. Not a smart thing to do unless you want to get caught up in a lawsuit.


Wait, so you're saying if it's put back to code, the seller is at fault? After the inspector says it's out of code?
This post was edited on 6/11/24 at 3:06 pm
Posted by bapple
Capital City
Member since Oct 2010
12128 posts
Posted on 6/11/24 at 3:14 pm to
quote:

First off. A gfci (ground fault circuit interceptor) senses current going to ground.


GFCI stands for ground fault circuit interrupter. And it uses a differential CT to measure the differential current between hot and neutral, not hot and ground. If the ground wire is carrying any current at all that is likely a fault condition and will trip the breaker quickly. If there is differential current between the hot and neutral, that implies the current has taken a new path, likely water. That’s why it trips and is generally required in areas that have water potential like a kitchen, bathroom, or outdoor.

quote:

Circuit breakers are heat activated.


Standard breakers in a home panel will be thermal-magnetic, meaning they have an overload portion that is time-delayed and activated by heat as you describe. But the short circuit protection in the breaker is magnetic and will trip instantaneously.

To the OP, arc fault breakers are known for not getting along with some appliances and will continue to trip more often as they trip over time, meaning they get more sensitive the more they trip. If you know for sure your fridge is on a dedicated circuit, replace the breaker with a standard (without fault protection) one. If the fridge is in your garage replace the outlet with a GCFI outlet since this is considered an area that could get wet. Then you maintain ground fault protection in case of moisture and replace what is likely a temperamental breaker.
Posted by Dallaswho
Texas
Member since Dec 2023
2440 posts
Posted on 6/11/24 at 4:11 pm to
quote:

If the fridge is in your garage replace the outlet with a GCFI outlet since this is considered an area that could get wet.

A dedicated refrigerator circuit does not need to be GFCI as far as I can tell. Electrocution risk is low and food safety risk is high. Plus it likely won’t get wet. As long as there are 2x 20A branch gfci circuits for small appliances in the kitchen, a dedicated fridge circuit can do without. All kitchen breakers must be (c)AFCI like is true for several other rooms now. For some dumb reason, no exception was made here though a few people interpret one.
I think going from a dual function breaker to an AFCI only will help though. The dual function ones seem to be especially finicky. He could also add a separate gfi receptacle to maintain all protection more reliably.
Posted by Clames
Member since Oct 2010
17749 posts
Posted on 6/11/24 at 5:53 pm to
quote:

Wait, so you're saying if it's put back to code, the seller is at fault? After the inspector says it's out of code?


Inspector won't say it's out of code, they might note the deficiency as a potential safety issue and recommend a qualified electrician look into it. Potential buyer pays an electrician to come out and they find the issue doesn't exist, they question the inspector, inspector provides pictures showing the AFCI breaker wasn't present at the time of inspection then the Seller gets to explain the discrepancy.

I use a rugged Kodax PixPro, takes great inspection photos and I take lots of pictures of everything even if they aren't problems for CYA policy.
This post was edited on 6/11/24 at 6:01 pm
Posted by LSUDad
Still on the move
Member since May 2004
60604 posts
Posted on 6/11/24 at 6:32 pm to
Ok, now I see what you're saying. So if you note the deficiency, what if the buyer wants this deficiency repaired? Then what?
Posted by Clames
Member since Oct 2010
17749 posts
Posted on 6/11/24 at 7:12 pm to
That's negotiated between buyer and seller under contract.
Posted by Lazy But Talented
Member since Aug 2011
14860 posts
Posted on 6/12/24 at 1:55 pm to
So will an electrician replace the GFCI breaker with one that won't trip if the code requires it to be a GFCI breaker?

I'm confused as most people are saying to change the breaker to a non-GFCI and that fridges shouldn't be on GFCI. Yet the code requires it?
This post was edited on 6/12/24 at 1:57 pm
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