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re: Draymond Green, Ben Wallace, or Dennis Rodman?
Posted on 4/25/24 at 12:56 pm to sorantable
Posted on 4/25/24 at 12:56 pm to sorantable
Rodman for the rebounds and defense. He was a damn good rebounder from his 2nd season on, but his prime started really started his sixth year in the league when he was 30 years old. He had six straight seasons where he averaged 16.7 rebounds per game. 5.75 of them were offensive rebounds that likely ended up as second chance points.
ETA:
He didn't give many second chances while rebounding double-figures for defensive rebounds during that six years. Pretty sure he averaged more career rebounds per minute than any other player during his time in the league.
Year Age Team ORB DRB TRB
1991-92 30 DET 6.4 12.3 18.7
1992-93 31 DET 5.9 12.3 18.3
1994-95 33 SAS 5.6 11.2 16.8
1995-96 34 CHI 5.6 9.3 14.9
1996-97 35 CHI 5.8 10.2 16.1
1997-98 36 CHI 5.5 9.9 15.4
1997-98 37 CHI 5.3 9.8 15.0
Rodman Basketball Reference page
Was 1st in the league for Rebounds Per Game all six of those years.
1991-92 NBA 18.7 (1st)
1992-93 NBA 18.3 (1st)
1993-94 NBA 17.3 (1st)
1994-95 NBA 16.8 (1st)
1995-96 NBA 14.9 (1st)
1996-97 NBA 16.1 (1st)
Was 1st in the league for Offensive Rebound all six years
1990-91 NBA 361 (1st)
1991-92 NBA 523 (1st)
1992-93 NBA 367 (1st)
1993-94 NBA 453 (1st)
1995-96 NBA 356 (1st)
1996-97 NBA 320 (1st)
Awards
1989-90 Defensive Player of the Year
1990-91 Defensive Player of the Year
2021-22 NBA 75th Anniversary Team
Championships
1989 Detroit Pistons (NBA)
1990 Detroit Pistons (NBA)
1996 Chicago Bulls (NBA)
1997 Chicago Bulls (NBA)
1998 Chicago Bulls (NBA)
ETA:
He didn't give many second chances while rebounding double-figures for defensive rebounds during that six years. Pretty sure he averaged more career rebounds per minute than any other player during his time in the league.
Year Age Team ORB DRB TRB
1991-92 30 DET 6.4 12.3 18.7
1992-93 31 DET 5.9 12.3 18.3
1994-95 33 SAS 5.6 11.2 16.8
1995-96 34 CHI 5.6 9.3 14.9
1996-97 35 CHI 5.8 10.2 16.1
1997-98 36 CHI 5.5 9.9 15.4
1997-98 37 CHI 5.3 9.8 15.0
Rodman Basketball Reference page
Was 1st in the league for Rebounds Per Game all six of those years.
1991-92 NBA 18.7 (1st)
1992-93 NBA 18.3 (1st)
1993-94 NBA 17.3 (1st)
1994-95 NBA 16.8 (1st)
1995-96 NBA 14.9 (1st)
1996-97 NBA 16.1 (1st)
Was 1st in the league for Offensive Rebound all six years
1990-91 NBA 361 (1st)
1991-92 NBA 523 (1st)
1992-93 NBA 367 (1st)
1993-94 NBA 453 (1st)
1995-96 NBA 356 (1st)
1996-97 NBA 320 (1st)
Awards
1989-90 Defensive Player of the Year
1990-91 Defensive Player of the Year
2021-22 NBA 75th Anniversary Team
Championships
1989 Detroit Pistons (NBA)
1990 Detroit Pistons (NBA)
1996 Chicago Bulls (NBA)
1997 Chicago Bulls (NBA)
1998 Chicago Bulls (NBA)
This post was edited on 4/25/24 at 1:23 pm
0
Posted on 4/25/24 at 1:04 pm to TheWalrus
quote:
Draymond is in a different league offensively than those guys. You were pretty much playing 4 on 5 on offense with Ben Wallace.
Wallace's career also bookmarks the lowest scoring averages the league has seen. He would never be a stretch 5 but he would be fine mopping up 10+ rebounds and pnr dunks in today's basketball.
how much of Draymond's assist numbers are juiced by playing with the two best shooters of all time?
This post was edited on 4/25/24 at 1:06 pm
Posted on 4/25/24 at 1:16 pm to Dire Wolf
quote:Like Karl Malone playing with John Stockton made both HOF'ers. Stockton got Karl the ball and Karl scored.
how much of Draymond's assist numbers are juiced by playing with the two best shooters of all time?
This post was edited on 4/25/24 at 1:24 pm
Posted on 4/25/24 at 1:33 pm to Frac the world
Shaq averaged 22 and 10 on 65% from the field against Detroit. It was actually the second most effecient playoff series of his career, trailing behind only his 1995 (age 22) ECF series against the pacers 
Posted on 4/25/24 at 1:35 pm to saintsfan22
quote:
The other two bring nothing on offense but rebounding and putbacks.
So they bring something then
Posted on 4/25/24 at 1:42 pm to CunningLinguist
Rodman.
Posted on 4/26/24 at 8:07 am to Bunk Moreland
quote:
Draymond. He can't shoot for shite but he's a great offensive facilitator. The other two bring nothing on offense but rebounding and putbacks.
quote:
I think Draymond because of how he could facilitate offense.
Exactly. He's also more versatile on defense.
This thread is really Draymond v. Rodman
Wallace is WAY back at #3. Ben Wallace being unplayable in the FIBA world championships due to his limitations on defense, after being DPOY in the NBA, is a major reason why the NBA started changing to the modern game we have today. He is unplayable today on every level.
Posted on 4/26/24 at 8:08 am to Geauxldninja
quote:
A lot of people in this thread aren’t gonna know shite about prime Big Ben. Dude was an absolute beast.
Ben Wallace would be unplayable today on defense.
Posted on 4/26/24 at 8:44 am to TheWalrus
quote:
Draymond is in a different league offensively than those guys. You were pretty much playing 4 on 5 on offense with Ben Wallace.
Yeah Ben Wallace would have a hard time setting picks and letting the two best 3 point shooters of all time fire away while he goes after offensive rebounds. Steph makes Looney look like almost an allstar at times.
Draymond would be a slightly better PJ Tucker on any other team.
He's a great defensive player. He's worthless on offense, and the only reason people think he's this great distributor is b/c he played with the two best 3 point shooters of all time, in a time in the league where shooting 10+ 3's a game for each of them was encouraged. Congrats on grabbing rebounds, running the floor, and finding the two 40% + 3 point shooters with the quickest release ever for 3, and good job on finishing layups when the other team goes guard those guys instead of you.
Swap Draymond with Rodman or Wallace, and he is a nobody in the 90's early 2000's.
Swap Rodman or Wallace with Draymond the last 10 years, and they are both still going to be known for being one of the best defensive players of all time.
Posted on 4/26/24 at 8:49 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Ben Wallace would be unplayable today on defense.
how can you say shite like this when Kevon Looney is out there getting minutes on championship rosters
Wallace was a freak. The NBA could always use a 6'9 shot blocking and rebounding machine
he also put up 18 and 22 rebounds to close out the lakers. No reason he wouldn't thrive as a rim-running center in today's NBA.
Posted on 4/26/24 at 9:07 am to Dire Wolf
quote:
how can you say shite like this when Kevon Looney is out there getting minutes on championship rosters
Because he was completely exposed...in 2002. Against proto-modern offenses. Again, Wallace being exposed was one of the main drivers of the offensive innovation and adaptation we saw just after.
You take Wallace more than a few feet away from the rim and he was a liability. The teams in the Fiba World championship would just pick until he was guarding the perimeter. It was a huge reason why we lost.
Posted on 4/26/24 at 10:39 am to SlowFlowPro
GTFO
We didn't lose in FIBA in 2002 b/c of Ben Wallace.
We lost to Yugoslavia with Vlade Divac and Peja.
They also lost to Ginobili and Scola in a game where Argentina went 3-14 from 3.
Color me suprised the guys that played the top 4 minutes of Andre Miller, Michael Finley, Jermaine O'Neal and Antonio Davis didn't beat them.
It was a shite USA team. They did not lose b/c Ben Wallace couldn't defend the perimeter in 2002, the first year he won his 4 DPOY titles.
We didn't lose in FIBA in 2002 b/c of Ben Wallace.
We lost to Yugoslavia with Vlade Divac and Peja.
They also lost to Ginobili and Scola in a game where Argentina went 3-14 from 3.
Color me suprised the guys that played the top 4 minutes of Andre Miller, Michael Finley, Jermaine O'Neal and Antonio Davis didn't beat them.
It was a shite USA team. They did not lose b/c Ben Wallace couldn't defend the perimeter in 2002, the first year he won his 4 DPOY titles.
Posted on 4/26/24 at 10:44 am to PP7 for heisman
quote:
It was actually the second most effecient playoff series of his career,
The Finals?
Posted on 4/26/24 at 10:44 am to sorantable
Depends on what era
Posted on 4/26/24 at 10:47 am to TeddyPadillac
Ben Wallace being exposed was widely discussed at the time.
You think I just invented this after 22 years to shite on the grave of Ben Wallace for...reasons?
You think I just invented this after 22 years to shite on the grave of Ben Wallace for...reasons?
Posted on 4/26/24 at 10:57 am to SlowFlowPro
and then he went on to win DPOY the next 2 years, then finish 2nd, then win it again b/c no one in the nba ever set picks with their big man on the perimeter, but sure, let's believe your memory of a media that wanted to blame someone for a shite USA roster losing to two countries with other good NBA players on it.
Posted on 4/26/24 at 10:57 am to sorantable
I feel like this is dependent on the surrounding roster. As elite that Dennis Rodman and Ben Wallace were on defense. They offer basically zero on the offensive end of the court. Draymond can assist with running the offense. He will be fully involved on the offensive end, making sure guys get their touches, and he can make an open shot when needed as well.
On the other hand, Draymond's weakness is rebounding. He has never been a great rebounder. Ben and Dennis were elite rebounders. While they can't assist with running the offense, they will undoubtedly get your team those 2nd chance points.
On the other hand, Draymond's weakness is rebounding. He has never been a great rebounder. Ben and Dennis were elite rebounders. While they can't assist with running the offense, they will undoubtedly get your team those 2nd chance points.
Posted on 4/26/24 at 10:58 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
and then he went on to win DPOY the next 2 years
In the NBA, playing dinosaur ball.
Posted on 4/26/24 at 11:01 am to SlowFlowPro
My god you’re ignorant
Posted on 4/26/24 at 11:13 am to Madking
Has he always been an idiot and I haven't paid attention? He said in another thread that jokic is a better bball player than Kobe Bryant. FFS.
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