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Steve Carlton is the most underrated pitcher in Baseball History, even though he's in HOF.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 5:49 pm
Posted on 7/25/23 at 5:49 pm
The numbers he put up while pitching for one of the worst teams in baseball are insane.
In 1972 he was 27-10 on a team with a 59-97 record.
So when Carlton pitched the Phillies were 27-10.
When Carlton didn't pitch the Phillies were 32-87.
That's one of the craziest stats in baseball history.
He played most of his career on terrible teams and finished 11th in Career wins & 4th in career strikeouts.
Imagine his stats had he pitched for the Reds, A's, Dodgers etc.
In 1972 he was 27-10 on a team with a 59-97 record.
So when Carlton pitched the Phillies were 27-10.
When Carlton didn't pitch the Phillies were 32-87.
That's one of the craziest stats in baseball history.
He played most of his career on terrible teams and finished 11th in Career wins & 4th in career strikeouts.
Imagine his stats had he pitched for the Reds, A's, Dodgers etc.
This post was edited on 7/25/23 at 5:50 pm
23
Posted on 7/25/23 at 6:01 pm to LeeVanCleef
ETA;
I knew he started w/ the Cards and played with the Sox, but forgot those other stops he made at the end of his career.
This post was edited on 7/25/23 at 6:09 pm
Posted on 7/25/23 at 6:01 pm to LeeVanCleef
Carlton had the filthiest slider I've ever seen from a lefty.
If you're in the HoF, you're not remotely underrated, especially someone of Carlton's caliber.
If you're in the HoF, you're not remotely underrated, especially someone of Carlton's caliber.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 6:03 pm to LeeVanCleef
I don’t disagree. His numbers are insane.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 6:04 pm to LeeVanCleef
Steve Carlton is always in my Top 5 greatest pitchers I can remember along with Seaver, Ryan, Maddux, and the Big Unit. But yes, he is criminally underrated mainly because he was a jackass to the media(which I understand why at times), and a social weirdo. Look up some stuff about him. He was a very strange dude. Damn good, make that great, pitcher though.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 6:10 pm to LeeVanCleef
His name may not come up often but I have always considered him one of the Top 10 pitchers during my lifetime and I’m 63.
The 1972 numbers are just ridiculous
The 1972 numbers are just ridiculous
Posted on 7/25/23 at 6:17 pm to LeeVanCleef
Didn’t he also win the pitching triple crown one year?
Posted on 7/25/23 at 6:20 pm to LeeVanCleef
quote:
He played most of his career on terrible teams.
He doesn't get discussed much any more so I would agree he's as underrated as a Hall of Famer could be. But to say he played most of his career on terrible teams is not true.
He played for some good Cardinals teams before he got traded - they won the World Series in '67, the year he really became established, and lost in 7 games in '68 before playing for teams that had winning records in '69 and '71. He played for some bad Phillies teams in 1972 and '73. The Phillies became competitive in '74, finished second in '75, won the NL East in '76-78, '80 and '83, lost in the NL Division Series in the strike-shortened '81 and finished second in '82.
From 1967-69, 1971, and 1974-84, he did not pitch for terrible teams. By 1984, he was on the decline.
This post was edited on 7/25/23 at 6:25 pm
Posted on 7/25/23 at 6:41 pm to Domeskeller
He is a dear family friend and lives in Durango Colorado. I see him a few times a year. Absolute stud and also somewhat crazy haha
Posted on 7/25/23 at 7:06 pm to Domeskeller
quote:
He played most of his career on terrible teams.
quote:
He doesn't get discussed much any more so I would agree he's as underrated as a Hall of Famer could be. But to say he played most of his career on terrible teams is not true. He played for some good Cardinals teams before he got traded - they won the World Series in '67, the year he really became established, and lost in 7 games in '68 before playing for teams that had winning records in '69 and '71. He played for some bad Phillies teams in 1972 and '73. The Phillies became competitive in '74, finished second in '75, won the NL East in '76-78, '80 and '83, lost in the NL Division Series in the strike-shortened '81 and finished second in '82. From 1967-69, 1971, and 1974-84, he did not pitch for terrible teams. By 1984, he was on the decline.
Yeah, I was going to post the same. I mean, he played in 4 World Series and won two, and his teams made the postseason 8 times which is big because when he started playing only one team in each league made the postseason and only 2 the rest of career, unlike the 4,5, and 6 from 1995-present. It was hard as hell to make the postseason and his teams did it 8 of his first 20 years almost half the time.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 7:13 pm to LeeVanCleef
Maybe underappreciated, but I don't think you can really describe a Hall of Famer as "underrated".
Posted on 7/25/23 at 7:19 pm to LeeVanCleef
Here is an article on his weirdness
LINK
LINK
Posted on 7/25/23 at 7:24 pm to LeeVanCleef
I agree. Simply amazing….
Posted on 7/25/23 at 7:29 pm to msudawg1200
Ok. I’ll put it this way the stats he put up in 1972 are the best ever n a single season considering how horrible they team was.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 7:41 pm to LeeVanCleef
Most may not remember this, but about a month after Nolan Ryan broke Walter Johnson’s all time strike-out record in 1983, Steve Carlton passed Ryan. They went back and forth a little but Carlton actually had the record most of the next year and half before Ryan pulled ahead for good in 1985 When he retired Carlton was 2nd all time and the top lefty, he’s still 4th and 2nd to Randy Johnson among leftys.
This post was edited on 7/25/23 at 7:52 pm
Posted on 7/25/23 at 7:51 pm to dukke v
quote:
Ok. I’ll put it this way the stats he put up in 1972 are the best ever n a single season considering how horrible they team was.
It’s his 27-10 record that’s amazing with such a bad team His winning percentage was .730 the team was .378 They were .269 without him
His era, whip, Ks etc have nothing to do with the quality of team around him. There may be no more stark of an example of why judging players on team accomplishments only is silly.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 9:13 pm to LeeVanCleef
Augie Busch needs a swift kick in the love nuggets for trading Carleton...over what $100k
Posted on 7/25/23 at 11:08 pm to LeeVanCleef
quote:
Steve Carlton is the most underrated pitcher in Baseball History, even though he's in
I disagree with 90% of the baseball history takes on this forum.
This one is spot on.
Carlton’s biggest problem was his animosity to the media. He hated them, they hated him, and he has never gotten the credit he deserved.
Ask people who the best pitchers of the 60’s,
70’s, 80’s were, and you’ll get answers like Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson, Tom Seaver, etc.
With the exception of Nolan Ryan, I’d put Carlton’s career over all the rest of them.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 11:19 pm to LeeVanCleef
Jim Palmer is the most underrated pitcher in baseball history.
Posted on 7/25/23 at 11:21 pm to LeeVanCleef
quote:
In 1972 he was 27-10 on a team with a 59-97 record.
I'd put Carlton's 1972 season up against anyone in the last 100 years.
This post was edited on 7/25/23 at 11:23 pm
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