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re: With a runner on 2nd, why is the 3rd baseman the cutoff man on a hit to left?
Posted on 6/4/12 at 12:04 pm to LCA131
Posted on 6/4/12 at 12:04 pm to LCA131
quote:
Not if the batter tries to stretch his single and the hopes of preventing the run from scoring have been dashed....You would cut it and go to 2nd. Stick to girls softball.
Any cutoff man on the field could cut off a throw and make a play at any base on the field. I was referring to whats going on 97% of the time.
u mad
0
Posted on 6/4/12 at 12:12 pm to LSUBoo
quote:
LF should be able to hit second base without a cut if he throws directly there
I would hope so...but that is not what Barry was saying.
quote:
or if the throw is headed home the 3B can cut it off and fire to second if he sees the batter trying it.
Well, of course...that is one of the purposes OF the cut-off man. The threat of it being cut-off is what should keep the batter from trying...and is also why so many cutoff guys 'deke' cutting it off.
Posted on 6/4/12 at 12:15 pm to LCA131
quote:
Well, of course...that is one of the purposes OF the cut-off man. The threat of it being cut-off is what should keep the batter from trying...and is also why so many cutoff guys 'deke' cutting it off.
So... what's your point? And infielder should be able to do that just the same, the 3B is just the easiest to get in line for a throw from LF to home.
Posted on 6/4/12 at 12:19 pm to Chicken
SS covers 2B in case the batter goes for two
Posted on 6/4/12 at 12:21 pm to LSUBoo
quote:
So... what's your point?
Barry said that the only bases that would be in 'play' (and then later amended to 97% of the time) would be to 3rd or home. I was simply saying that cutting it off to prevent another runner from scoring position is ALSO a reason. I understand that either player could do that but I stated in my first post as to why I felt like it is done like it is.
Posted on 6/4/12 at 12:28 pm to LCA131
quote:
Barry said that the only bases that would be in 'play'
Barry said
quote:
The only throw you are cutting off from LF is to those two spots
The only throws a 3rd basemen is "cutting off" are throws to home and 3rd. Thats a fact.
If your 3rd basemen is cutting off a throw to 2nd, you got problems.
Posted on 6/4/12 at 12:36 pm to barry
Barry,
The throw is coming FROM left field but it can be cut off TO home (an off-line or weak throw), to 2nd (to prevent the batter from advancing), perhaps even to first(the batter rounds too big) and I guess to 3rd although I am not too sure who would be covering since generally the SS should be in shallow LF if he trailed the hit slightly. If there was also a runner at first when the ball was hit then the situ. changes.
The throw is coming FROM left field but it can be cut off TO home (an off-line or weak throw), to 2nd (to prevent the batter from advancing), perhaps even to first(the batter rounds too big) and I guess to 3rd although I am not too sure who would be covering since generally the SS should be in shallow LF if he trailed the hit slightly. If there was also a runner at first when the ball was hit then the situ. changes.
Posted on 6/4/12 at 12:40 pm to LCA131
quote:
The throw is coming FROM left field but it can be cut off TO home (an off-line or weak throw), to 2nd (to prevent the batter from advancing), perhaps even to first(the batter rounds too big) and I guess to 3rd although I am not too sure who would be covering since generally the SS should be in shallow LF if he trailed the hit slightly. If there was also a runner at first when the ball was hit then the situ. changes.
I'm not arguing semantics, i know how a cutoff works. Since you are are cutting off a throw to home or 3B you want to have a guy positioned in line with that throw. Thats all I'm saying. I know it can go to other bases.
To the original post I'd put either the SS or 3B in charge of making the call and just have the other player react off of the first players move.
Posted on 6/4/12 at 12:41 pm to wish i was tebow
quote:
It's about the angle. The short stop would be to far away from home. Your outfielders tend to have better arms so they can get the ball pretty far into the infield instead of making your shortstop make a long throw
The third baseman comes in and has a better angle to throw home or get called to throw to a different base.
Hit up the middle should be the first baseman
This is the most right answer so far.
It has nothing to do with the strength of their arms. For a single to left with a runner on second, about even with the bag or on the cut of the grass is where the cutoff man needs to be for SEVERAL reasons here are a few:
a) Gives the catcher more time to decide if the throw is off line or needs to be cut/relayed.
b) easier to cut the ball and throw a strike from the that distance(a little bit inside of the baseline) than where ever the SS would be(most likely about middle of the dirt).
c) 3b is pretty much playing at the optimal cut point providing him more time to line up to the catcher.
d) half the time on a ball through the 5-6 hole your SS is going to lay out in an attempt to keep it on the infield to keep the run from scoring putting him way out of position for the relay.
This post was edited on 6/4/12 at 12:43 pm
Posted on 6/4/12 at 12:43 pm to Chicken
quote:
Chicken
The 3B is the cutoff home on all balls hit to left field. Once you get past Little League, the outfielders can reach home and the 3B wii be the cut about 70 feet or so from home plate. He is closer to being in line for the cut than the shortstop who plays deeper on the pitch. The shortstop will then cover 3B for any trail runner, or in case the runner rounds 3B too far and then tries to get back to 3B. Also, the shortstop is many times going after a ground all single to left field and would never make it back for a cut. If the ball is hit to the wall, where the outfielder ca't reach the plate, teams at all levels will use a tandem relay in which the shortstop will now be involved.
Same theory on the right side of the infield. The 1B is the cutoff home on all balls to centerfield or right field. Many times the 2B is diving for the ball, so he will not be in a good position to become the cut off. The 2B will then replace the 1B to stop the batter from rounding first base too far.
This post was edited on 6/4/12 at 12:46 pm
Posted on 6/4/12 at 1:17 pm to Chicken
At higher levels of baseball the catcher will communicate with the 1B/3B (depending which side of the field the ball was hit) verbally during the play to make sure he is aligned as well as possible with the path of the throw that is about to be made to the plate. The outfielder's goal is to try and make the throw straight at the 1B/3B head for what should be a good throw. This would be too hard to accomplish with a MIF do to distances and angles. While the throw is in the air, the catcher is able to read the precision of the throw and the runners and call for a relay, cutoff, or cut throw to another base from the 1B/3B.
Posted on 6/4/12 at 2:39 pm to Rohan2Reed
quote:
SS covers 2B in case the batter goes for two
No.
On a ball hit to left field that is not in the gap or in the corner, the 3B is the cutoff. SS covers 3rd. 2B covers 2nd.
The thought process is that any LF worth a shite is going to throw it into the infield grass area. The 3B/Catcher are supposed to judge the strength of the throw. If it is going to get to the catcher in the air or on a long one-hop, then it is allowed to go through. If it is off-line or is going to be a short-hop or a 2 or 3 hop, then the 3B cuts it.
Chicken, here are your standard cuts to home:
On balls that get to the wall...
Ball in the left field corner - SS goes out, 3B trails roughly 20 feet behind SS. No one covers 3rd, but 2B should cover 2nd.
Ball in the left field gap - SS goes out, 2B trails roughly 20 feet behind. 1st baseman trails the runner. 3B covers 3rd.
Ball in the right field gap - 2B goes out. SS trails him. 1st baseman trails runner.
Ball in the right field corner - 2B goes out. 1B trails him. SS covers 2nd.
On balls that are fielded mostly in front...
LF - 3B is cut, SS covers 3rd, 2B covers 2nd
CF - 3B covers 3rd, SS covers 2nd, 2B covers 1st, 1B cuts the ball between the mouund and 2nd.
RF - 3B covers 3rd, SS covers 2nd, 2B covers 1st, 1B cuts the ball.
That is the standard operating procedure, but you can adapt it to your infielders strengths I suppose.
Posted on 6/4/12 at 2:56 pm to Chicken
Haven't really read the responses, but the point of the cutoff is to be able to have an angle to throw to every base, and react.
2nd baseman moves to 2nd, SS moves to 3rd, pitcher backs up catcher, 3rd baseman moves to angle between hit and home.
It's so if anyone tries stretching it, he can cut it, and he can hear the calls of the catcher, who is in charge of the play at that point.
2nd baseman moves to 2nd, SS moves to 3rd, pitcher backs up catcher, 3rd baseman moves to angle between hit and home.
It's so if anyone tries stretching it, he can cut it, and he can hear the calls of the catcher, who is in charge of the play at that point.
Posted on 6/4/12 at 4:02 pm to hehateme2285
Very well said.
3rd is cutoff man to home from left. 1st base has the duty up the middle and right.
If no one is on and the batter hits a double, generally both 2nd and SS will be a double cutoff with the first baseman sneaking in behind the runner at 2nd in case he makes a wide turn.
Chicken if you can put the double cutoff into play, that would be sweet as hell for a 10 year old team. Talk about looking like you got your shite together.
3rd is cutoff man to home from left. 1st base has the duty up the middle and right.
If no one is on and the batter hits a double, generally both 2nd and SS will be a double cutoff with the first baseman sneaking in behind the runner at 2nd in case he makes a wide turn.
Chicken if you can put the double cutoff into play, that would be sweet as hell for a 10 year old team. Talk about looking like you got your shite together.
This post was edited on 6/4/12 at 4:05 pm
Posted on 6/4/12 at 4:02 pm to hehateme2285
The SS is too close to LF to make a cutoff effective
3B is the right depth to either allow a strong throw to go to the plate or for him to cut the throw and look elsewhere to make a play at another base
This is assuming the LF is throwing through the cutoff man
3B is the right depth to either allow a strong throw to go to the plate or for him to cut the throw and look elsewhere to make a play at another base
This is assuming the LF is throwing through the cutoff man
Posted on 6/4/12 at 5:33 pm to Newbomb Turk
quote:
I'll take a stab.
In most situations (maybe not little league), with a runner on second and ball hit to left field, you have to assume the runner will make it to third.
That's right!!! The play will be at home (where the 3B can cut if necessary and go to second to nail the batter. The plays will be at second or home, not at third. Having the 3B cut in such situations is text book at all levels. If things turn BAD NEWS BEARS and the batter ends up heading to third, the 3B has plenty of time to get over there. The tactic of having the 3B cut can lead the hitter to think he can make second when the throw comes in, when in fact, the 3B can cut and nail him.
Teams have playbooks and this scenario with the 3B cutting is in all of them.
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