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Biggest plot hole in Godfather II, and probably the whole trilogy
Posted on 8/14/13 at 2:06 am
Posted on 8/14/13 at 2:06 am
The feds allowing Frank Pentangeli contact with Tom Hagen. What the hell did they think would happen?
7
Posted on 8/14/13 at 2:11 am to Jim Rockford
I haven't watched GFII in a while, but wasn't Tom still the family lawyer?
Posted on 8/14/13 at 2:20 am to drizztiger
That's the usual answer, but Tom was acting as Michael's lawyer, and Frankie was supposed to testify against him before he got cold feet. Tom can't represent both sides at the same time. Since it was after the hearing, maybe he could be representing Frankie now, but it just seems sketchy.
Posted on 8/14/13 at 2:24 am to Jim Rockford
No, the biggest plot hole involves Danny Aiello saying "Michael Corleone says hello" when trying to kill Frankie.
His character was not supposed to have any dialogue, but Aiello ad-libbed so he would have a line (and get paid more). Coppola was amused and left the line in, but it really makes no sense in the context of the plot.
His character was not supposed to have any dialogue, but Aiello ad-libbed so he would have a line (and get paid more). Coppola was amused and left the line in, but it really makes no sense in the context of the plot.
Posted on 8/14/13 at 2:26 am to Jim Rockford
I get your point, but this setting was still in late 50s, early 60s? Pentangeli is under protection to testify, but does this mean he isn't allowed visitors? Especially when half of the law enforcement was paid off - real life and fictional here. It's not life Tom slipped him a .38 to off himself.
Posted on 8/14/13 at 2:28 am to Kafka
quote:
No, the biggest plot hole involves Danny Aiello saying "Michael Corleone says hello" when trying to kill Frankie.
His character was not supposed to have any dialogue, but Aiello ad-libbed so he would have a line (and get paid more). Coppola was amused and left the line in, but it really makes no sense in the context of the plot.
I was reading about that earlier. The other supposed plot hole in that scene is later on, Michael says "Roth handled it brilliantly." A lot of people infer that he faked the whole thing and made Pentangeli think it was a hit. The IYAM, the clear implication is that it really was a hit that went wrong, and Roth improvised based on that.
Posted on 8/14/13 at 2:33 am to Jim Rockford
quote:They both did. It was more a he said/she said.
I was reading about that earlier. The other supposed plot hole in that scene is later on, Michael says "Roth handled it brilliantly." A lot of people infer that he faked the whole thing and made Pentangeli think it was a hit. The IYAM, the clear implication is that it really was a hit that went wrong, and Roth improvised based on that.
Again, haven't watched in a while, but the hit goes in to kill Frankie from Roth. Frankie already as been making his displeasure known to Michael. Hit man tells Frankie that Michael sends his regards. Frankie lives, thinks it's Michael, Michael thinks Roth left him alive on purpose.
It's more happenstance.
This post was edited on 8/14/13 at 2:36 am
Posted on 8/14/13 at 5:30 am to Jim Rockford
I think legally wouldn't Tom be able to have access to any witnesses that the government has anyway? I don't know when that started, but I am pretty sure he would be able to see any gov witnesses beforehand.
As far as Michael says hello. I think it was a given that they made it seemed Michael had turned on Frank. And the hit went bad when the cop showed up at the bar.
I think everyone is reading too much into the Roth played this one good. It could be as simple as Michael thinking Roth was after him, and trying to frame him. Hence the part at the end when he says he just wants to kill his enemies.
As far as Michael says hello. I think it was a given that they made it seemed Michael had turned on Frank. And the hit went bad when the cop showed up at the bar.
I think everyone is reading too much into the Roth played this one good. It could be as simple as Michael thinking Roth was after him, and trying to frame him. Hence the part at the end when he says he just wants to kill his enemies.
This post was edited on 8/14/13 at 5:34 am
Posted on 8/14/13 at 6:53 am to lsutigerfan1976
quote:
I think legally wouldn't Tom be able to have access to any witnesses that the government has anyway?
this. Legally the opposing attorney can have contact with any witnesses.
Posted on 8/14/13 at 7:50 am to Jim Rockford
I haven't seen any of the Godfather movies completely and all the way through, just in pieces. That's a crime, I know. But I'm hoping to get an edumacation during Mob Week.
BTW, where the frick is Goodfellas and Casino this week, AMC? And Donnie Brasko?
BTW, where the frick is Goodfellas and Casino this week, AMC? And Donnie Brasko?
Posted on 8/14/13 at 8:39 am to The Sad Banana
Casino was on this morning, I watched the last hour. Donnie Brasco was on over the last few weeks on one of the movie channels.
I still haven't seen GFIII, just don't feel like taking the time to watch it.
Also, if the Godfather saga plays on AMC, they add in a bunch of "deleted" scenes that explain things a little more. I thought they rearranged the order of some scenes, or played the story chronologically, but I may be confusing/combining two different showings.
DVR the saga, and watch after you watch the theatrical release movies.
I still haven't seen GFIII, just don't feel like taking the time to watch it.
Also, if the Godfather saga plays on AMC, they add in a bunch of "deleted" scenes that explain things a little more. I thought they rearranged the order of some scenes, or played the story chronologically, but I may be confusing/combining two different showings.
DVR the saga, and watch after you watch the theatrical release movies.
This post was edited on 8/14/13 at 8:41 am
Posted on 8/14/13 at 8:59 am to Kafka
quote:
No, the biggest plot hole involves Danny Aiello saying "Michael Corleone says hello" when trying to kill Frankie.
Yes this is true. the only reason to say that before killing the guy is for a witness to hear it and think it was ordered by Michael Corleone, however, his intent was to kill that witness, so nobody really would have ever known.
Posted on 8/14/13 at 9:00 am to The Sad Banana
Dude, you gotta watch GFII all the way through. its incredible in every way
Posted on 8/14/13 at 9:26 am to Tiger Ryno
Could have been two movies. I really like the coming up story, and would have liked to see more of that.
Posted on 8/14/13 at 10:38 am to drizztiger
quote:
I get your point, but this setting was still in late 50s, early 60s? Pentangeli is under protection to testify, but does this mean he isn't allowed visitors? Especially when half of the law enforcement was paid off - real life and fictional here. It's not life Tom slipped him a .38 to off himself.
It was after he blew it on the witness stand and ruined the government's case, so they were probably about to transfer him to a prison anyway, right? I'm sure his safety wasn't a priority anymore..
Posted on 8/14/13 at 10:43 am to brmark70816
quote:
It was after he blew it on the witness stand and ruined the government's case, so they were probably about to transfer him to a prison anyway, right? I'm sure his safety wasn't a priority anymore..
people are really reaching to call this a plot hole. Tom didnt do anything, he didn't kill him or give him a weapon, they had a vague conversation where Frankie is the one that mentions the Roman plotters would kill themselves. While I'm sure the FBI on general principal would try to stop him from killing himself, there is no reason to keep him from having visitors especially since the case was over or to suspect the visitor would encourage him to commit suicide.
This post was edited on 8/14/13 at 12:01 pm
Posted on 8/14/13 at 11:45 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
people are really reaching to call this a plot hole.
+1
Posted on 8/14/13 at 12:39 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
Tom didnt do anything, he didn't kill him or give him a weapon, they had a vague conversation where Frankie is the one that mentions the Roman plotters would kill themselves.
That was in response to Tom's statement, "Frankie -- when a plot against the Emperor failed -- the planners were always given a chance to let their families keep their fortunes." It also came after Tom confirmed they sent Pentangeli's brother home safely, which was Frankie's reward for recanting everything, and more to the point, confirmed the threat existed and could come up again. Hagen delivered a clear message, and Frankie knew what was required of him.
Posted on 8/14/13 at 1:58 pm to Spock's Eyebrow
How do you cut a horse's head off and get it into a guy's bed, while he's sleeping, and manage not to get any blood anywhere except in the bed?
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