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High Plains Drifter-Who, or what, was the Stranger, exactly? (Spoilers)
Posted on 5/29/24 at 10:23 pm
Posted on 5/29/24 at 10:23 pm
Just finished watching it with my teenage daughter and when it comes to the penultimate scene with the whipping and the fire and the killer asks "who are you!?"
She blurted out "The Devil."
And I said "that's pretty good, maybe not The Devil, but a devil. An agent of retribution."
And she said "Karma".
Which is pretty astute for a young teen.
But in the end, when the Little Man asks the stranger, "who are you?"
He replies, "you already know."
And the camera pans around to the newly carved headstone for the fallen Marshal Jim Duncan.
Leading one to believe the stranger was a...ghost? A Wraith?
His brother?
I think it's some combination, or maybe more of a concept. Anyway, great film. Eerie, with moments of levity. A great vengeance story.
What are your thoughts? I'll shut up and listen.
She blurted out "The Devil."
And I said "that's pretty good, maybe not The Devil, but a devil. An agent of retribution."
And she said "Karma".
Which is pretty astute for a young teen.
But in the end, when the Little Man asks the stranger, "who are you?"
He replies, "you already know."
And the camera pans around to the newly carved headstone for the fallen Marshal Jim Duncan.
Leading one to believe the stranger was a...ghost? A Wraith?
His brother?
I think it's some combination, or maybe more of a concept. Anyway, great film. Eerie, with moments of levity. A great vengeance story.
What are your thoughts? I'll shut up and listen.
9
Posted on 5/29/24 at 10:27 pm to fr33manator
He was a bad arse mother fricker. Yeah I’ll go with that.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 10:45 pm to fr33manator
He is the Angel of Death. Also another movie Pale Rider, which is a direct reference to,death form Revelation, is basically the same character
Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:22 pm to fr33manator
quote:
watching it with my teenage daughter
Why? Enjoy watching rape scenes with your kiddo?
But it's pretty clear just a traveling badass who gets visited or possessed by the memories and spirit of the murdered marshal. He got his revenge on the murderers, and called out the pussies of the town who did nothing to help him.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:28 pm to PowerTool
quote:
Why? Enjoy watching rape scenes with your kiddo?
I skipped that part, jackwagon
Jesus Christ what's wrong with you?
quote:
But it's pretty clear just a traveling badass who gets visited or possessed by the memories and spirit of the murdered marshal.
Yeah I don't think that's it
This post was edited on 5/29/24 at 11:31 pm
Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:53 pm to fr33manator
An avenging spirit. It's essentially The Crow done as a Clint Eastwood Western. The two movies have a lot in common.
Posted on 5/30/24 at 12:01 am to fr33manator
quote:
Yeah I don't think that's it
It's right there in the dream sequence. And later, one of the women he slept with (was that one consensual?) tells him that the marshal can't rest because he was buried in an unmarked grave. I've never talked to anyone else who was confused about this.
quote:
Jesus Christ what's wrong with you?
Don't look at me, I didn't pick this movie to watch with a kid.
Posted on 5/30/24 at 5:54 am to fr33manator
Seems obvious he's the ghost of the former town Marshall who was killed by the bandits while the rest of the town did nothing. He came to get revenge on the bandits who killed him and the townspeople who did nothing to help.
Posted on 5/30/24 at 5:56 am to PowerTool
She called him whiskey breath, and that he had no manners, no courage . What did you expect ?
Posted on 5/30/24 at 6:24 am to Brosef Stalin
quote:
Seems obvious he's the ghost of the former town Marshall
Except that would defy all the cultural zeitgeist of what a "ghost" is.
This is an embodiment. He comes with a purpose and leaves with a purpose. Temporary Possession just doesn't fit
Posted on 5/30/24 at 9:17 am to fr33manator
the dead marshal's brother.
Posted on 5/30/24 at 9:20 am to PowerTool
quote:to this day i still remember the rape scene in the 'outlaw josey wales' and to this day it still bothers me.
Why? Enjoy watching rape scenes with your kiddo?
i think it was seeing it at such a young impressionable age that made it such a lasting memory.
Posted on 5/30/24 at 9:25 am to Brosef Stalin
quote:
Seems obvious he's the ghost of the former town Marshall who was killed by the bandits while the rest of the town did nothing. He came to get revenge on the bandits who killed him and the townspeople who did nothing to help.
This is what I always thought. Never even considered that it was in doubt.
Posted on 5/30/24 at 10:03 am to kciDAtaE
I'd agree, except for the fact that ghosts don't typically shoot, screw, smoke and sleep.
He is far too tangible to be a ghost
He is far too tangible to be a ghost
Posted on 5/30/24 at 11:28 am to fr33manator
All the ghosts I have met have been able to do all that.
Posted on 5/30/24 at 12:05 pm to fr33manator
Worth a look also is the earlier western, "A Day of Fury" (1956), in which Dale Robertson arrives in a small western town, with his presence being a corrupting influence on everyone, to the consternation of sheriff Jock Mahoney. It's all done in a similarly allegorical manner, with the gist being that Robertson is either Satan or an agent of Satan.
Posted on 5/30/24 at 12:14 pm to Brosef Stalin
quote:
Seems obvious he's the ghost of the former town Marshall who was killed by the bandits while the rest of the town did nothing. He came to get revenge on the bandits who killed him and the townspeople who did nothing to help.
I saw it for the first time last year and was not expecting it to be like it was. I finished that movie thinking "what in the actual hell did I just watch?" I also had the distinct impression he was the ghost of the marshal. I did some wikipediaing about the movies, theories are all over the place. I'm sticking with ghost of dead marshal.
Posted on 5/30/24 at 8:23 pm to fr33manator
All I know is The Malpaso Company always did a great job of casting with minor characters. This movie in particular has no major characters other than Eastwood's. The people who play all of the townspeople in it are great for their roles.
Outlaw Josey Wales had great small roles cast too. Who envisioned these actors pulling off looking this ugly?
This guy who was the bardge operator in Josey Wales. was the barber in High Plains Drifter:
It's similar to what the Coen Brothers did with getting the West Texas folks right in No Country for Old Men, but Eastwood's people did it for several different Westerns. They are the experts with Westerns.
There are multiple casting directors for The Malpaso Company's movies. Some are uncredited. A guy named Jack Kosslyn was the casting director for Josey Wales. Two guys, William Batliner & Robert J. LaSanka are the uncredited casting directors for High Plains Drifter. Two Mules for Sister Sara has no listed casting director. A woman named Jane Murray is credited for Hang em High. The pattern of so many different people doing this job, with some not even being credited leads me to believe Clint had a big part in casting these gems.
>>>>Throw in thought of the day:
Looking at the cast of the new Costner movie makes me think ole Kev probably picked the right folks for it too. He's got people that will fit into the Old West. Guys like Will Patton, Sam Worthington, Jeff Fahey, Michael Rooker, Thomas Haden Church, Luke Wilson, Thomas Payne, & Danny Huston listed on Horizon: An American Saga - Chapter 1's IMDb page
If you go to "All cast and crew", you'll see it also has Scott Haze from Old Henry.:
and Lafayette's James Landry Hebert fro the 1883 series:
even has Braveheart (1995)'s Robert the Bruce, Scottish actor Angus Macfadyen. I'm guess Macfadyen, Thomas Payne, Danny Huston will all be part of a faction of an immigrants he encounters.
Love all of the Westerns talk on here lately!
ETA:
I don't know if Luke Wilson has ever been in a Western, but he should fit. He is a real Texan anyway. That thought may have passed thru Costner's head too.
Outlaw Josey Wales had great small roles cast too. Who envisioned these actors pulling off looking this ugly?
This guy who was the bardge operator in Josey Wales. was the barber in High Plains Drifter:
It's similar to what the Coen Brothers did with getting the West Texas folks right in No Country for Old Men, but Eastwood's people did it for several different Westerns. They are the experts with Westerns.
There are multiple casting directors for The Malpaso Company's movies. Some are uncredited. A guy named Jack Kosslyn was the casting director for Josey Wales. Two guys, William Batliner & Robert J. LaSanka are the uncredited casting directors for High Plains Drifter. Two Mules for Sister Sara has no listed casting director. A woman named Jane Murray is credited for Hang em High. The pattern of so many different people doing this job, with some not even being credited leads me to believe Clint had a big part in casting these gems.
>>>>Throw in thought of the day:
Looking at the cast of the new Costner movie makes me think ole Kev probably picked the right folks for it too. He's got people that will fit into the Old West. Guys like Will Patton, Sam Worthington, Jeff Fahey, Michael Rooker, Thomas Haden Church, Luke Wilson, Thomas Payne, & Danny Huston listed on Horizon: An American Saga - Chapter 1's IMDb page
If you go to "All cast and crew", you'll see it also has Scott Haze from Old Henry.:
and Lafayette's James Landry Hebert fro the 1883 series:
even has Braveheart (1995)'s Robert the Bruce, Scottish actor Angus Macfadyen. I'm guess Macfadyen, Thomas Payne, Danny Huston will all be part of a faction of an immigrants he encounters.
Love all of the Westerns talk on here lately!
ETA:
I don't know if Luke Wilson has ever been in a Western, but he should fit. He is a real Texan anyway. That thought may have passed thru Costner's head too.
This post was edited on 5/30/24 at 8:36 pm
Posted on 5/31/24 at 2:14 am to fr33manator
quote:
This is an embodiment. He comes with a purpose and leaves with a purpose. Temporary Possession just doesn't fit
I think you’re right. The notion he’s some sort of avenging angel taking human form is a good way to view it.
The physicality he displays of eating, drinking, getting a shave, screwing, and killing argue against him being an ethereal insubstantial presence, a ghost. I would guess he wasn’t heaven sent either. Painting the town red calling it hell, not to mention the rape. Reminds me of Genesis 6:2 “ the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful and desirable; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose and desired.“-often interpreted to mean fallen angels taking human form and mating with human women.
The Drifter is similar to Preacher in Pale Rider. Identical physicality: Eating, drinking, breaking up the boulder, beating the crew with an axe handle, screwing the miner’s common law wife, and killing bad people. Mysterious also, seeming to be a ghost of sorts-bullet wounds on his back looking like too many and in lethal places for a mortal to survive. An avenging angel.
Also not heaven sent. You don’t sleep with another man’s woman. So more like the avenger in High Plains Drifter. Preacher turns Shane on its head. Pale Rider is clearly Eastwood’s homage to and his rejection of Alan Ladd’s Shane.
Both Preacher and Shane ride mysteriously from on high coming down the mountain to mingle and intervene in the affairs of mortal men and when done ride back up into the mountains to disappear leaving children behind pleading for them to return. “Shane, come back.” “Preacher, come back.”
The big difference is Shane struggled with the opportunity to fall in love and sleep with the farmer’s wife and triumphed over temptation whereas Preacher had no struggle with conscience and almost expected to sleep with the miner’s wife. Eastwood’s rejection of the “old” morality couldn’t be more clearly spelled out. Pale Rider is Eastwood’s profane Shane .
Good topic. Great observation about Drifter not being a ghost. I love good westerns.
Posted on 5/31/24 at 5:59 am to Mr. Misanthrope
quote:
Good topic
Agreed. Great thread so far.
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