Just watched Usual Suspects - what was and wasn’t part of Verbal’s story?

shite, I can't even begin to remember. Found this on Reddit though:

quote:

---

Before we dismiss the whole "well the entire story was told by a liar" theory, there was something that confused me for a long time.

Although Verbal Kint was "rescued" by the "higher ups", he had to meet special agent Kujan. Now, people think that Verbal could get out of the situation by telling an passable bullshite story to distract Kujan just to pass the bail time, but I don't its that plain easy:

Agent Kujan could detain Kint longer than originally possible using his authority, which would complicate things.In a totally unexpected turn of events, the picture describing Verbal would be oust Keyzer Soze. GAME OVER.

In a split second in the opening, Kint was testifying to a judge. There was official records, any mismatch in the testimony with his interrogation story would be ousted immediately. The story would've been an expansion of the testimony (mostly about Keyzer Soze)

If, for some reason, Verbal's story doesn't match with the facts and Kujan notices it, he could quickly find out and force the story to point 1.

Therefore, Verbal story cannot be 100% fake, for some of the story actually included Kujan and the police forces themselves!

Then, what parts of the story would have been true?

The arrest and holding of the Usual Suspects: TRUE, Agent Kujan himself even captured Dean Keaton and they all spent the night interrogating them, all in the records.

The NYPD taxi service heist: TRUE, "... it was all over the news", Verbal would have to have been there to know the details (such as where and how) so that he could tell that in an interrogation flawlessly. Also, the men were discussing in a holding cell, if the police heard what they were talking about, they would've known something would come up. Additionally, I didn't see any reason why a police officer would post something embarrassing like that on his bulletin board, so it was all in everybody's head, but not on the board. And it was in the testimony.

Meeting of Redfoot: UNCONFIRMED: We see Redfoot in the board, and there was a post card similar to the background where Redfoot and the Suspects met, I think Verbal lied about the person and location. I mean, Redfoot's role completely faded away as soon as Kobayashi entered the room.

The mess up of Jeweler Saul: UNCONFIRMED, The reason for Verbal to tell this story because it gives the suspects the forced meeting with Kobayashi, But there's also no good reason, because Verbal just admitted to MURDER in cold blood, he definitely wouldn't put that in the testimony.

Meeting of Kobayashi: UNCONFIRMED, The name Kobayashi is obviously fake. I think the meeting is all might have been true. BUT!, the assault of the boat had to happen, and Keyzer Soze couldn't have done that alone. The suspects might have been naively lured with dope and money.

Assault on the boat: TRUE, The police were onto this. There was no dope, but all the members of both gangs were massacred, these details were confirmed true by the police.

As I said earlier, Verbal's story had to be true enough for him to bullshite out of the station. But then, why the hell was he even there? He was just massacring every single gang members and his own teammates, but got caught several hours after the scene of the crime? Something also was suspicious, such that Agent Kujan never for once believing Verbal's story related to KEATON.

Then it hit me.

Verbal Kint deliberately got caught so he could tell the authorities Dean Keaton is Keyzer Soze!

Here's what I think things went:

Arturo Marquez, an Argentinian who wanted to identify Keyzer Soze caught Keyzer Soze's attention. He followed that person's lawyer, Edie Finneran, who was currently dating... a previously known dead man and fugitive of the law Dean Keaton. He rats out Dean and the suspects to the police. Wait what?

I repeat, VERBAL KINT tipped off Agent KUJAN.

He knew all about Kujan was onto Keaton and would go to any lengths to get him. The police finds the suspects, interrogates them, then puts them in a cell together. Of course, after the NYPD taxi heist, the group agree to do one more job... the boat heist, which we know what happened. The reason Soze hires the suspects is that he can tie loose ends... by killing all of them after the heist.

I think Dean Keaton knew Keyzer Soze related to all of this, because that name should have been mentioned by his girlfriend's client. And at the boat heist, Dean finally meets Keyzer Soze, and his end, just like in the beginning scene. After killing Keaton, Soze hides in the docks and testifies only the basic facts to the judges.

Verbal knew Agent Kujan would be coming for him. Verbal was one of the last remaining people to be linked to Keaton(The NYPD heist, the boat heist and before).

Verbal fabricated Keaton into a sympathetic guy in the UNCONFIRMED parts of the story. These parts are hard to prove, so Kujan can't confirm nor deny its authenticity, but just feels something is wrong.

Keaton not wanting to do Redfoot's job at first

Keaton not wanting to kill Saul

Keaton being a lovable guy

Keaton being forced into crime (again)

Keaton being the leader in the group

This results in Kujan overreacting and deducting that Keaton was actually the ghost, Keyzer Soze. In the end, we see why Verbal didn't mind getting out a little bit late; the real plan was to plant this very idea to Kujan. This wasn't a 5 second idea he fiddled while watching the bullitin board, this was a carefully planned story to purposely hide his tracks as the Keyser Soze, by making the authorities chase a dead man he knew he just killed.

But lol, he failed. That picture drawing ousts Verbal Kint as Keyzer Soze. As long as his face is known, Keyzer Soze will be caught.



(Final edit: Also, it's really brilliant that the only words that Verbal got from the bullitin board was Redfoot and Kobayashi, two LIVING people who the police could track back to him.)

---

Nothing shown in the movie is likely to be true or what happened. It was all just a story he told the Detective.

*ETA: Nothing is a bit much. The vast majority is a better word.

I just finished watching this movie again and stumbled upon this thread.

A couple of things.

First of all Verbal Kint is often described as the narrator, he's not. There is no narrator. Verbal is being interviewed, not narrating. In literature narrators don't lie, but those being interviewed can.

A good example of this is Interview with the vampire.. Louis isn't narrating, he's answering questions and telling Daniel a story, and in the sequal, The Vampire Lestat, the record is set straight by the narrator, Lestat himself. In literature narrators always tell the truth. The same goes for movies.

So with all that in mind, Verbal (like the Devil himself) mixes lies with the truth, but never fully tells the truth. But one thing we can assume is true is that Keyser Sose is indeed real, but what we cannot assume is that Verbal Kint or anyone else in the movie is Keyser Sose. In fact, I proffer that neither Verbal, Kobayashi or Keaton was Sose. Keyser Sose (as we understand him to be) would've never been foolish enough to make an appearance.

This

quote:

---

what was and wasn’t part of Verbal’s story?

---

Yes

quote:

---

Nothing shown in the movie is likely to be true or what happened. It was all just a story he told the Detective.

*ETA: Nothing is a bit much. The vast majority is a better word.

---

This has been discussed on this for years and I think you are on team "the ending is really just a cheat". If so, would you please rehash that for us?

quote:

---

In literature narrators don't lie

---

Some narrators definitely lie dog

ETA: American Psycho comes to mind immediately

quote:

---

Some narrators definitely lie dog

ETA: American Psycho comes to mind immediately

---

Where in the story did Bateman lie though? Did he ever lie or mislead the audience about who he was or what he did?

Excellent insight.
As much as I like this movie I’ve tried to search out more in this “genre” or “vein.” What are some you think are similar or at least in the right neighborhood?
I really liked the Criminal: Germany/Spain/etc series on Netflix

flip ya for real!