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re: Watched Memento for the first time today (spoilers)
Posted on 8/23/12 at 11:34 am to alajones
Posted on 8/23/12 at 11:34 am to alajones
Another part that didn't make sense was that if he already started his tattoo system before he killed his wife, wouldn't someone have made him get a tattoo or take a picture of her to remind him that she's alive?
Posted on 8/23/12 at 11:34 am to Cap Crunch
Found this (it's actually Jankis)
LINK
Sammy Jankis (well played by Stephen Tobolowsky) is key to our understanding Memento. First off he's key to Leonard remembering he suffers from short-term memory loss because Sammy, too, has the same affliction—or at least claims to.
As an insurance investigator, Leonard refused to pay off Sammy's claim because it is shown that his amnesia is not physical—but perhaps psychological. In one of those black-and-white flashback scenes, we see Leonard telling Sammy's wife this. She's a diabetic and—in the next scene—we see her testing her husband in an unbearably painful way. Sammy gives his wife regular insulin injections when she tells him "it's time." In this scene, she tells him it's time again and again to see if he'll actually go through with it (her reasoning: if he really loves her and is faking he'd obviously stop). The thing is he doesn't stop.
What's so crucial about this scene is this: it mirrors Leonard's own trauma. Somehow (and we may not have enough information to say exactly how—perhaps through conditioning and repetition as is suggested) Lenny has merged his own past with his memory of Sammy. In seeking out revenge for his wife's death, he tattoos facts on his body (Fact 1, Fact 2, etc.) but the message "Remember Sammy Jankis" is importantly not one of them.
To quote Leonard himself: "memory can change the shape of a room or the color of a car."
The final scene (which, remember, is the earliest in chronological time) with the undercover cop Teddy (Joe Pantoliano) spells this all out. Teddy has his own agenda but what he reveals to Leonard here is true. The black-and-white scene of Sammy giving his wife repeated injections is a visualization of something Leonard psychologically wants to believe—but that doesn't make it so.
The fact is this: Leonard's wife is the diabetic and Leonard is the one who gave her too many shots. This is confirmed by Teddy when he tells Leonard she survived the attack. Teddy also points out the missing pages in the police report. Why are the pages missing? Because Leonard didn't want to face what they reveal. And (even more significantly) there's the image of Leonard's wife on the bed (wearing underwear) in which Leonard is seen giving her an injection. This image is quickly brushed aside by another image of him playfully pinching her in the same spot, but that's just obfuscation. It's a perfect example of a real memory intruding into our hero's mind and him quickly seeking to cloud it so as to avoid psychological pain.
LINK
Sammy Jankis (well played by Stephen Tobolowsky) is key to our understanding Memento. First off he's key to Leonard remembering he suffers from short-term memory loss because Sammy, too, has the same affliction—or at least claims to.
As an insurance investigator, Leonard refused to pay off Sammy's claim because it is shown that his amnesia is not physical—but perhaps psychological. In one of those black-and-white flashback scenes, we see Leonard telling Sammy's wife this. She's a diabetic and—in the next scene—we see her testing her husband in an unbearably painful way. Sammy gives his wife regular insulin injections when she tells him "it's time." In this scene, she tells him it's time again and again to see if he'll actually go through with it (her reasoning: if he really loves her and is faking he'd obviously stop). The thing is he doesn't stop.
What's so crucial about this scene is this: it mirrors Leonard's own trauma. Somehow (and we may not have enough information to say exactly how—perhaps through conditioning and repetition as is suggested) Lenny has merged his own past with his memory of Sammy. In seeking out revenge for his wife's death, he tattoos facts on his body (Fact 1, Fact 2, etc.) but the message "Remember Sammy Jankis" is importantly not one of them.
To quote Leonard himself: "memory can change the shape of a room or the color of a car."
The final scene (which, remember, is the earliest in chronological time) with the undercover cop Teddy (Joe Pantoliano) spells this all out. Teddy has his own agenda but what he reveals to Leonard here is true. The black-and-white scene of Sammy giving his wife repeated injections is a visualization of something Leonard psychologically wants to believe—but that doesn't make it so.
The fact is this: Leonard's wife is the diabetic and Leonard is the one who gave her too many shots. This is confirmed by Teddy when he tells Leonard she survived the attack. Teddy also points out the missing pages in the police report. Why are the pages missing? Because Leonard didn't want to face what they reveal. And (even more significantly) there's the image of Leonard's wife on the bed (wearing underwear) in which Leonard is seen giving her an injection. This image is quickly brushed aside by another image of him playfully pinching her in the same spot, but that's just obfuscation. It's a perfect example of a real memory intruding into our hero's mind and him quickly seeking to cloud it so as to avoid psychological pain.
Posted on 8/23/12 at 11:42 am to Cap Crunch
quote:
take a picture of her to remind him that she's alive?
There was a picture. He burned it when Teddy gave it to him. Can't remember if he had a tattoo of it or not. But he decided instead of living with no memory, he would give himself a purpose. And that was constantly hunting down John G.
Posted on 8/23/12 at 12:11 pm to sicboy
There is also a scene near the end of the movie that shows Sammy Jankiss sitting in an institution. As someone walks by him his face changes for a split second (just a few frames) to that of Leonard.
You have to watch really closely to notice it.
You have to watch really closely to notice it.
Posted on 8/23/12 at 12:41 pm to GumBro Jackson
quote:
You have to watch really closely to notice it.
Not really

Posted on 8/23/12 at 1:19 pm to sicboy
quote:
The fact is this: Leonard's wife is the diabetic and Leonard is the one who gave her too many shots. This is confirmed by Teddy when he tells Leonard she survived the attack. Teddy also points out the missing pages in the police report. Why are the pages missing? Because Leonard didn't want to face what they reveal. And (even more significantly) there's the image of Leonard's wife on the bed (wearing underwear) in which Leonard is seen giving her an injection. This image is quickly brushed aside by another image of him playfully pinching her in the same spot, but that's just obfuscation. It's a perfect example of a real memory intruding into our hero's mind and him quickly seeking to cloud it so as to avoid psychological pain.
I disagree. This assumes that Teddy is a truthteller which we know for a fact he isn't. I cannot say this strenuously enough: we cannot believe anything Teddy says. Some of it is true. Maybe all of it is true. But we do not know if it is true.
The key to Sammy is that he clearly had to exist and exist before Leonard's trauma or else he couldn't remember him. However, Leonard manipulates his memory of Jenkis for his own purposes. Yes, memory can change the color of a car.
The point is not that Leonard's wife or Sammy's wife is diabetic, but that Leonard no longer knows. And neither do we. We cannot get at the objective truth due to the faulty nature of memory. And he can make himself believe either. Either can be true. Or neither. Such is the power of human memory.
My personal belief is that Leonard killed his wife in the attack and he's trained his mind to forget the fact. He is the killer. (This from reading the short story, which is much different than the movie, and focuses on Leonard in the psych ward).
Posted on 8/23/12 at 1:35 pm to Baloo
quote:
My personal belief is that Leonard killed his wife in the attack and he's trained his mind to forget the fact. He is the killer.
Umm, wow. Quite a leap, and I'm not on board. I did read that short story when it came out, but probably can't remember much. Wasn't the short story just the inspiration for the movie, and not actually connected?
Plus, in the polaroid that Teddy gave him, it said plainly "I got him". Granted, Teddy could have been making a lot of it up and the memory could change, but it's way too much of a stretch to say that he killed his wife, and in the process suffered a massive head injury that caused him to remember none of it and then force himself to believe he's a vigilante. Why would Teddy break out a mentally deficient murderer to help him exercise his fantasy world? It's more believable that Teddy had sympathy for him, help him find the killer, and since Leonard wasn't going to remember any of it, he decided to use it to his advantage.
Posted on 8/23/12 at 1:48 pm to sicboy
quote:
Not really
I've talked to several people who didn't notice it, so I was trying to be nice...
Posted on 8/23/12 at 1:58 pm to sicboy
Teddy is not being nice to Leonard. He's using him as a hired killer he doesn't have to pay to shake down drug dealers and take their profits and product. He's not doing it for sympathy, he has an angle. That's why he manipulates Leonard into the opening kill. He's encouraging this fantasy world because he manipulates the evidence into getting Leonard to kill the competition.
Leonard is an escaped mental patient who is avoiding capture because of the protection of a dirty cop (Teddy). Teddy tells Leonard what he wants him to know, and there is no reason to believe he is telling the truth about Sammy Jenkis. Hell, there's no reason to believe he KNOWS the truth about Sammy Jenkis.
Also, let's analyze Leonard's last memory. we have no reason to believe it is not true: he is on the floor next to his wife, as they both bleed, victims of a robbery. Now, under what circumstances is Leonard released to his wife's custody, assuming she survives, and he is to manage her injections? Do we honestly think that he was not obsessed with this missing John G until he accidentally poisoned his wife, months or even years after the incident? How does the timeline work if she survives the attack and Leonard kills her later with insulin? And how does he remember it when prompted to by Teddy? He can't make new memories.
I think there's far too many difficulties with this interpretation. Sammy Jenkis killed his wife. So did Leonard. That's why he instructs himself to remember. He's absolving himself of responsibility.
Leonard is an escaped mental patient who is avoiding capture because of the protection of a dirty cop (Teddy). Teddy tells Leonard what he wants him to know, and there is no reason to believe he is telling the truth about Sammy Jenkis. Hell, there's no reason to believe he KNOWS the truth about Sammy Jenkis.
Also, let's analyze Leonard's last memory. we have no reason to believe it is not true: he is on the floor next to his wife, as they both bleed, victims of a robbery. Now, under what circumstances is Leonard released to his wife's custody, assuming she survives, and he is to manage her injections? Do we honestly think that he was not obsessed with this missing John G until he accidentally poisoned his wife, months or even years after the incident? How does the timeline work if she survives the attack and Leonard kills her later with insulin? And how does he remember it when prompted to by Teddy? He can't make new memories.
I think there's far too many difficulties with this interpretation. Sammy Jenkis killed his wife. So did Leonard. That's why he instructs himself to remember. He's absolving himself of responsibility.
Posted on 8/23/12 at 3:06 pm to sicboy
quote:
You don't impress easily, do you?

I'm not trying to be a snob, I swear. I just feel like this is his true magnum opus. People say "oh, man, Inception is genius." No, Memento is genius. Such a well-made, well edited, unique, refined film with very few, if any, flaws.
And I'm not trying to say Nolan's other movies are bad, because they are very good, but Memento is on a whole different planet IMO
Posted on 8/23/12 at 3:15 pm to Carson123987
quote:
but Memento is on a whole different planet IMO
I actually agree with this. I really enjoy all of Nolan's movies, but Memento just a different ballgame. IMO Memento belongs in a list of top movies of all time.
Nolan's other stuff is excellent, but not at that level. TDK is truly epic, but a lot of that was because of Heath Ledger crushing the role of Joker.
Inception is kick arse, but not really that inventive, and *spoilers* the whole snow level at the end just seemed like a big action set with no real depth...I kept expecting James Bond to show up.
Posted on 8/23/12 at 3:25 pm to GumBro Jackson
quote:
the whole snow level at the end just seemed like a big action set with no real depth
Now you're just being silly.
Everyone needs to check out his first film, Following, if you haven't had the chance.
Posted on 8/23/12 at 3:27 pm to Cap Crunch
Memento is in my top 5 movies. I still pick up on things when I watch it again.
This post was edited on 8/23/12 at 3:28 pm
Posted on 8/23/12 at 3:36 pm to GumBro Jackson
Tarantino really enjoyed Memento. However, he said it had one flaw.
But overall I love the film.
In fact Non Batman movies > Batman movies when it comes to Nolan.
TDK is great.....for a comic book film. Mostly because of Heath Ledger.
Movies like Memento and The Prestige are just better.
quote:
How does he keep remembering he has a condition?
But overall I love the film.
In fact Non Batman movies > Batman movies when it comes to Nolan.
TDK is great.....for a comic book film. Mostly because of Heath Ledger.
Movies like Memento and The Prestige are just better.
Posted on 8/23/12 at 3:44 pm to Rittdog
quote:
How does he keep remembering he has a condition?
If you say things enough times, some things will stick. That's why he totally believed the Jankiss story. Remember it. Remember it. That's why the stuff that happened from minute to minute had to be written down.
Wiki
Many medical experts have cited Memento as one of the most realistic and accurate depictions of anterograde amnesia in any motion picture. Caltech neuroscientist Christof Koch called Memento "the most accurate portrayal of the different memory systems in the popular media," while physician Esther M. Sternberg, Director of the Integrative Neural Immune Program at the National Institute of Mental Health, identified the film as "close to a perfect exploration of the neurobiology of memory."
Sternberg concludes: "This thought-provoking thriller is the kind of movie that keeps reverberating in the viewer's mind, and each iteration makes one examine preconceived notions in a different light. Memento is a movie for anyone interested in the workings of memory and, indeed, in what it is that makes our own reality."
Clinical neuropsychologist Sallie Baxendale writes in Memories aren't made of this: amnesia at the movies: "The overwhelming majority of amnesic characters in films bear little relation to any neurological or psychiatric realities of memory loss... Apparently inspired partly by the neuropsychological studies of the famous patient HM (who developed severe anterograde memory impairment after neurosurgery to control his epileptic seizures) and the temporal lobe amnesic syndrome, the film documents the difficulties faced by Leonard, who develops a severe anterograde amnesia after an attack in which his wife is killed. Unlike in most films in this genre, this amnesic character retains his identity, has little retrograde amnesia, and shows several of the severe everyday memory difficulties associated with the disorder. The fragmented, almost mosaic quality to the sequence of scenes in the film also reflects the 'perpetual present' nature of the syndrome."
Posted on 8/23/12 at 3:44 pm to GumBro Jackson
quote:yes, ledger did a good job, but so did the writers, directors, costume, etc. perfect synergy.
TDK is truly epic, but a lot of that was because of Heath Ledger crushing the role of Joker.
not trying to downplay ledger, but had he not eaten 134 pills, his role wouldn't be so iconic, imho
Posted on 8/23/12 at 4:28 pm to Rittdog
Nolan has a legit top 3 with Memento, TDK, and The Prestige
Posted on 8/23/12 at 4:42 pm to Cap Crunch
I'm envious that you get to see for a first time.
Well actually, his brother did.
quote:
First off, Nolan is a genius. I don't know how you come up with a plot like that or the story line when its backwards.
Well actually, his brother did.
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