Why is Alec John Such (Bon Jovi bass player) so obscure?

He was a lousy bassist and hasn't been in Bon Jovi since 1994.

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Also, what's the evidence that he was so lousy?

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At the time that he was fired from the band, one of the reasons was his poor live performances.

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OK. IMO, that's a bit different than "lousy" bassist. I think he wrote good bass lines and performed them well in the studio. I think there was probably some pretty bad substance abuse impairing him by the end. That still doesn't answer why he's been all but erased.

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It's easy to be a good musician in the studio, if you can't play it live you're not very good. Who cares if it's the drugs, you suck at your job. It's not that he's been erased, he never made much of an impression.

It's easy to be a good musician in the studio, if you can't play it live you're not very good.

To elaborate on JohnQ's post, the above should read, "It's easy to be REPLACED BY a good musician in the studio."

Ask not only the Hugh McDonald guy to whom JohnQ referred, but Ace Frehley and Peter Criss about uncredited ghost studio musicians. And the MANY, MANY drummers throughout recording history whose tracks got canned in secret in the wee hours behind the scenes, by a nameless studio rat who could double a take over a click track or metronome with zero flaws or time deviances.

In the studio days pre-Pro Tools and digital work stations, like the 80s, poor studio performances were quickly addressed. Professional studio time with professional studio staff cost HUGE $$$$$$. That's part of the reason getting signed was such a big deal ... it was nothing like today's world, where any jackass with a computer can make a record. Back in those days, you needed at least a six-figure, preferably a seven-figure budget, fronted by a record label, to make a real album in a legit studio.

That being said, producers, engineers, even bandmates would replace you with a studio rat before they'd attempt multiple takes or go nuts with multiple punches (which degrade source tape quality) or labor-intensive splice razors. That advance money from the label for the record? The band is contracted to reimburse that to the label off sales. More time spent, more money owed. Motive.

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I am no expert on who recorded what, but there are reports that Hugh McDonald (the guy who took over for Alec and is still in the band) wrote and recorded a lot of what was credited to Alec, including the one you linked above. It is reported Hugh wrote and played all the bass on New Jersey and wrote and played the bass on Livin' On A Prayer and Runaway (which wasn't the Bon Jovi band as we know it anyway).

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This is the kind of stuff that I think it's weird that it isn't to be found on Wikipedia pages!

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Ace Frehley and Peter Criss about uncredited ghost studio musicians.

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When I was writing that about Hugh, I was thinking of Ace and Peter. They are some of the most famous people to have had stuff originally credited to them that they didn't record. Anton Fig (drummer in Paul Shaffer's band on Letterman's show) recorded a lot for Peter, most of Dynasty and all of Elder. Ace is seen on the Creatures of the Night album sleeve but Vinnie Vincent played 6 of the solos, Robben Ford 2 and Steve Farris (later of Mr. Mister) recorded one. Bob Kulick played guitar on some tracks from Alive II and all 4 of the new tracks on Killers.

Mike Slamer played the leads on all of Warrant's Cherry Pie album except the title track, played by C.C. DeVille. Producer Beau Hill said Joey and Eric played all the rhythm tracks but just weren't yet at the level to handle the solos so Mike was brought in. Reportedly they eventually learned the solos as well as getting to the point they could play solos on the succeeding records.

I have little doubt there are a ton of examples we've yet to hear about.

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Mike Slamer played the leads on all of Warrant's Cherry Pie album except the title track, played by C.C. DeVille. Producer Beau Hill said Joey and Eric played all the rhythm tracks but just weren't yet at the level to handle the solos so Mike was brought in. Reportedly they eventually learned the solos as well as getting to the point they could play solos on the succeeding records.

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I knew about CC - that was billed at the time as like a "featuring" type of thing. I did not know about the rest. Slamer's Wiki page says he played the solos on Dirty Rotten album as well.

It's true that VV and Kulick are obviously better than Ace, but I still think there's a delineation between "too drunk/stoned to perform" and what you are saying in the Warrant case (actually not in possession of the necessary skills.) Which claim are you making about Ace?

John Q, were you in the industry back then? I'm desperate to hear more from you along these lines.

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VV and Bob were different than Ace. I love Ace but his style is his style. He technique is so unique that I would never recommend to any one as a way to emulate. The way he holds the pick and attacks the strings looks very difficult to me. But it works for him. I think VV and Bob were brought in because Ace didn't have the skills in the moment they needed them. Yes it is different than just not having them at all, but the drugs and alcohol kind of robbed him of the skills when KISS needed them.

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I love old KISS and I love Ace, but his style is a little too on-the-nose, pure pentatonic-based IMO. However, the songs were just better when he was in the band. He also has the best of the solo albums - "Snowblind" is my favorite.

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No, I'm not really in that industry now. Kind of tangential, but I am a fan of not just the music but the history of it all. I like learning where the bodies are buried as it were LOL. (example, most of the bass on Kickstart My Heart is a Korg M1 synth played by a ringer- I cant remember who at the moment)

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Give us some more bodies!