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2024/2025 Pelicans Salary Discussion
Posted on 7/9/24 at 2:25 pm
Posted on 7/9/24 at 2:25 pm
PLAYER (12) POS AGE CAP HIT
1 Zion Williamson PF 24 $36,725,670
2 Brandon Ingram SF 27 $36,016,200
3 C.J. McCollum SG 33 $33,333,333
4 Dejounte Murray PG 28 $29,517,134
5 Herb Jones SF 26 $12,976,362
6 Trey Murphy III SF 24 $5,159,855
7 Jordan Hawkins SG 22 $4,525,680
8 Yves Missi C 20 $3,193,200
9 J Robinson-Earl PF 24 $2,196,970
10 Matt Ryan SF 27 $2,196,970
11 Jose Alvarado PG 26 $1,988,598
12 Daniel Theis C 32 $2,087,519
13 Antonio Reeves SG $0
14
15
$171,129,972
Tax Threshold $170,814,000
Under Tax: $896,509
First Apron Hard Cap: $178,132,000
Remaining Space: $8,214,509
I believe this to be where we currently stand. Let me know if anything looks particularly off. Am I wrong to say that only the top 12 contracts counts towards Salary Cap and Luxury Tax, or do all count towards Luxury?
Pelicans Spotrac
1 Zion Williamson PF 24 $36,725,670
2 Brandon Ingram SF 27 $36,016,200
3 C.J. McCollum SG 33 $33,333,333
4 Dejounte Murray PG 28 $29,517,134
5 Herb Jones SF 26 $12,976,362
6 Trey Murphy III SF 24 $5,159,855
7 Jordan Hawkins SG 22 $4,525,680
8 Yves Missi C 20 $3,193,200
9 J Robinson-Earl PF 24 $2,196,970
10 Matt Ryan SF 27 $2,196,970
11 Jose Alvarado PG 26 $1,988,598
12 Daniel Theis C 32 $2,087,519
13 Antonio Reeves SG $0
14
15
$171,129,972
Tax Threshold $170,814,000
Under Tax: $896,509
First Apron Hard Cap: $178,132,000
Remaining Space: $8,214,509
I believe this to be where we currently stand. Let me know if anything looks particularly off. Am I wrong to say that only the top 12 contracts counts towards Salary Cap and Luxury Tax, or do all count towards Luxury?
Pelicans Spotrac
This post was edited on 7/10/24 at 10:22 am
5
Posted on 7/9/24 at 2:37 pm to PELsu
They show Murray with about $2.1 million worth of incentives which get counted towards the 1st Apron. So while you show a $7 million gap to the 1st Apron after Theis, they show only $7.7 before adding Theis.
Also, regarding Theis, 1 year minimums get subsidized by the league and only count as a 2 year vet for tax purposes, so $2 million vs. the $3.3 million you listed.
Also, regarding Theis, 1 year minimums get subsidized by the league and only count as a 2 year vet for tax purposes, so $2 million vs. the $3.3 million you listed.
Posted on 7/9/24 at 2:45 pm to TigerinATL
I have such a hard time believing they are going to pay the tax this year, but they have pretty much forced themselves into it.
Posted on 7/9/24 at 2:46 pm to PELsu
Posted this in a thread yesterday:
quote:
I'm getting:
Zion Williamson: $36,725,670
Brandon Ingram: $36,016,200
CJ McCollum: $33,333,333
Dejounte Murray: $29,517,134
Herb Jones: $12,976,362
Trey Murphy: $5,159,855
Jordan Hawkins: $4,525,680
Yves Missi: $3,193,200
Jeremiah Robinson-Earl: $2,196,970
Matt Ryan: $2,196,970
Daniel Theis: $2,087,519
Jose Alvarado: $1,988,598
12 players for a total of $169,917,491 right now with an estimate for Missi
Posted on 7/9/24 at 2:51 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
I have such a hard time believing they are going to pay the tax this year, but they have pretty much forced themselves into it.
The worst part is if it works, they can't keep it together. They'd be a 2nd Apron team for sure the following season when Trey gets paid.
Posted on 7/9/24 at 3:01 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
The worst part is if it works, they can't keep it together. They'd be a 2nd Apron team for sure the following season when Trey gets paid.
Just to make sure I understand, according to your math, we're about $5 million dollars under the first apron? I understand that we are hard capped at the first apron and can't go over, but I'm trying to figure out how much we are currently under the first apron with our current roster, including the 2 draft picks.
Posted on 7/9/24 at 3:05 pm to saintslsupels
quote:
Just to make sure I understand, according to your math, we're about $5 million dollars under the first apron?
A little less.
- Spotrac has the Pels at $7.7 away from the 1st Apron before Theis.
- Theis should count $2 million, so $5.7. The Pels have to add one more player to the roster to get it up to 14. That could be a rookie, but is more likely going to be another vet minimum so at least $2 million more getting you down to $3.7.
This post was edited on 7/9/24 at 3:06 pm
Posted on 7/9/24 at 3:05 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
The worst part is if it works, they can't keep it together. They'd be a 2nd Apron team for sure the following season when Trey gets paid.
Well CJ's contract goes down from 33.3M to 30.6M at least
Regardless, I'd be shocked if both CJ and BI are on this team a year from now.
Posted on 7/9/24 at 3:07 pm to TigerinATL
If it works, you basically have to count on Hawk developing into the CJ role and shipping CJ off. Or CJ taking a massive discount.
Posted on 7/9/24 at 3:14 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
The worst part is if it works, they can't keep it together. They'd be a 2nd Apron team for sure the following season when Trey gets paid.
More than likely, although the numbers are jumping up significantly next year to $188 for the tax and $196 for the first apron next year.
It's pretty obvious that one of BI or CJ isn't going to be here next year.
Posted on 7/9/24 at 3:20 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
They show Murray with about $2.1 million worth of incentives which get counted towards the 1st Apron. So while you show a $7 million gap to the 1st Apron after Theis, they show only $7.7 before adding Theis.
Also, regarding Theis, 1 year minimums get subsidized by the league and only count as a 2 year vet for tax purposes, so $2 million vs. the $3.3 million you listed.
So regarding Murray, generally the likely incentives count towards the cap and unlikely incentives do not. I assumed spotrac was already counting the likely incentives in the $29 million total, and assumed the unlikely do not count. Are you saying the unlikely amount does count towards the apron even though not the cap?
That's awesome on Theis and good stuff. Wish it was easier to find information on some of this stuff.
Posted on 7/9/24 at 3:25 pm to PELsu
quote:
So regarding Murray, generally the likely incentives count towards the cap and unlikely incentives do not. I assumed spotrac was already counting the likely incentives in the $29 million total, and assumed the unlikely do not count. Are you saying the unlikely amount does count towards the apron even though not the cap?
That's awesome on Theis and good stuff. Wish it was easier to find information on some of this stuff.
OK, interesting. Just doing some math with the numbers. The Spotrac difference between total allocations and the tax number equals exactly the amount of the unlikely incentives plus one incomplete roster charge. Which makes me think the likely incentives are part of the total already. And Theis takes up the roster charge.
Posted on 7/9/24 at 3:29 pm to PELsu
quote:
So regarding Murray, generally the likely incentives count towards the cap and unlikely incentives do not.
The apron is weird, you have to count unlikely incentives. I remember when Jrue got his new deal from Demps the Pels were about $2 million below the tax and couldn't sign anyone to even a minimum deal because it would have pushed them over the Apron with Jrue's incentives. He had about $5 million per year, mostly unlikely.
Posted on 7/9/24 at 3:29 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
They show Murray with about $2.1 million worth of incentives which get counted towards the 1st Apron. So while you show a $7 million gap to the 1st Apron after Theis, they show only $7.7 before adding Theis.
Murray’s incentives were automatically applied to his contract number when he was traded, so the 29.5 is his full number.
The numbers above are correct, we have 7.7 million breathing room under the hard capped 1st apron.
Posted on 7/9/24 at 3:44 pm to Soggymoss
What is this apron talk? Is it like first and second half of fiscal year?
Posted on 7/9/24 at 3:50 pm to slutiger5
You have the salary cap, then the luxury tax, then the first apron, then the second apron. Once you’re into the luxury tax, the penalties and restrictions increase at each level.
Posted on 7/9/24 at 3:52 pm to slutiger5
quote:
What is this apron talk? Is it like first and second half of fiscal year?
No, they are thresholds within the tax that if you cross you get restrictions on transactions you can do for the year. Like the Pels took back more money than they sent out in the Murray trade, so we basically promised not to go over the 1st Apron this year.
quote:
Teams above the first apron (projected to be $178.7 million in 2024-25):
Can't use the non-taxpayer mid-level exception or bi-annual exception
Can't take back more salary in a trade than they send out
Can't acquire a player via sign-and-trade
Can't sign a player from the buyout market who was earning more than the non-taxpayer mid-level exception ($12.9 million) before getting waived
Can't use preexisting trade exceptions
Teams that go above the second apron (projected to be $189.5 million) face all of the same restrictions as first-apron teams, along with the following:
No access to any mid-level exception in free agency
Can't aggregate contracts in trades
Can't send cash in trades
Can't acquire players when they sign-and-trade their own free agents elsewhere
Can't trade a first-round pick seven years in the future, and that pick falls to the bottom of the first round if a team is over the second apron at least twice in a four-season span
LINK
Posted on 7/9/24 at 4:00 pm to Soggymoss
quote:
Murray’s incentives were automatically applied to his contract number when he was traded, so the 29.5 is his full number. The numbers above are correct, we have 7.7 million breathing room under the hard capped 1st apron.
I know I read that some of his unlikely incentives involved making the playoffs, which were considered unlikely as a Hawk, but likely as a Pelican since we made the playoffs lol. Not sure how that equates to the above, just something that amused me.
Posted on 7/9/24 at 4:25 pm to slutiger5
Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here. So we recieved $12M this year for being under the tax.
Even if we just go over the tax next year by say $3M, we'd lose out on that expected $12M (or whatever it will be, lkely around the same), then we'd have to pay a fee of $4.5M, so that's a -$16.5M for being $3M over the tax line.
Now that shouldn't matter to an NBA team in todays world b/c they shoudl all be making tons of money now, but it starts adding up when you build a championship caliber team and you have to pay the repeater tax, and deal with the restrictions of it.
For instance, Milwauke is $20M over the tax line for this year (at this time) but they will owe $65M in taxes b/c they are a repeater team, whereas a team like Miami is just $17M over the tax line at this time, but will only owe $33M b/c they aren't a repeater team yet.
Posted on 7/9/24 at 4:49 pm to PELsu
Isn't alvarado's deal up after this year?
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