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Armchair GMs (Take 2)
Posted on 4/25/25 at 8:05 pm
Posted on 4/25/25 at 8:05 pm
2
Posted on 4/25/25 at 8:07 pm to LSUChamps03
Look at the state of this roster, our FO doesn’t get the benefit of “well they know better “
Mickey would be out on his arse if he worked for any other team
Mickey would be out on his arse if he worked for any other team
Posted on 4/25/25 at 8:25 pm to BilJ
I’m not saying they always get it right. But it’s an objective fact they know a shite ton more about every one of these prospects than anyone on this site does. We get to watch some tape and read internet shite. Now sometimes we guess right, sometimes they guess wrong. But it’s comical listening to the extremes on both sides lose their minds. The guys who get emotional enough to lose their minds on a message board and say “I’m done with this team” are the ones least likely to be “done” as a fan. That’s someone who’s invested!
For the record I’m not a fan of the QB pick. But what the hell do I know about football scouting? I hope the guy turns out to be great, but I have no insight to know for sure that the guy’s gonna suck like some of you think you do.
For the record I’m not a fan of the QB pick. But what the hell do I know about football scouting? I hope the guy turns out to be great, but I have no insight to know for sure that the guy’s gonna suck like some of you think you do.
Posted on 4/26/25 at 3:56 pm to LSUChamps03
Another interesting armchair GM example:
Josh Allen Not a 1st Rd Talent
Less impressive draft profile than Shough’s:
Allen NFL Draft Profile
This isn’t a direct Shough vs. Allen comp, btw, so don’t think I’m taking that leap.
Josh Allen Not a 1st Rd Talent
Less impressive draft profile than Shough’s:
Allen NFL Draft Profile
This isn’t a direct Shough vs. Allen comp, btw, so don’t think I’m taking that leap.
Posted on 4/26/25 at 4:02 pm to BilJ
quote:
Look at the state of this roster, our FO doesn’t get the benefit of “well they know better “
It's amazing that people spent all season begging for Mickey to be fired and Gayle to sell the team but now the braintrust is to be blindly followed again.
Posted on 4/26/25 at 4:04 pm to LSUChamps03
quote:
But what the hell do I know about football scouting?
you make it seem like it's rocket science....
look, if you watch a ton of football, you become familiar with who's good and who's not.... it ain't that difficult to be able to recognize the guys who make impact plays and who become known commodities...
look at the Eagles... they don't go after small school wonders... more often than not, in recent drafts, they've gone after known guys, from major programs, who have a history of production...
quote:
I hope the guy turns out to be great,
we all do, as Saints fans... however...
quote:
I have no insight to know for sure that the guy’s gonna suck like some of you think you do.
sure you do... all you have to do is look at his production in his 6 years in college... what has he done of worth? what has he accomplished? not really that much of anything? now, ask yourself, if he hasn't done all that much in college, a lower level of competition and ability, what makes you think he will be able to all of a sudden produce MORE at a higher level of competition and ability?
Posted on 4/26/25 at 4:12 pm to chRxis
quote:
sure you do... all you have to do is look at his production in his 6 years in college... what has he done of worth? what has he accomplished? not really that much of anything? now, ask yourself, if he hasn't done all that much in college, a lower level of competition and ability, what makes you think he will be able to all of a sudden produce MORE at a higher level of competition and ability?
Or even simpler. What makes anyone think he'll stay healthy in the pros? Everybody hates that our players are always hurt and we draft one of the most injury riddled guys available.
Posted on 4/26/25 at 4:13 pm to saintsfan22
quote:
What makes anyone think he'll stay healthy in the pros? Everybody hates that our players are always hurt and we draft one of the most injury riddled guys available.
very good point... very appropriate to ask, as well...
Posted on 4/26/25 at 4:14 pm to saintsfan22
quote:
It's amazing that people spent all season begging for Mickey to be fired and Gayle to sell the team but now the braintrust is to be blindly followed again.
Who’s said the brain trust is to be blindly followed? I sure haven’t.
I think the ones who are stating they somehow know as fact that certain picks are terrible or great are comical and overly emotional. And I gave Josh Allen as an example with the posted articles.
And just like I bet none of the Allen haters ever admitted how wrong they were and instead just jumped on the bandwagon when he became great, most of those who make bold “factual” analysis of a player that turns out completely wrong won’t acknowledge it before they buy, FOR EXAMPLE, a Shough jersey.
Posted on 4/26/25 at 4:28 pm to chRxis
quote:
you make it seem like it's rocket science.... look, if you watch a ton of football, you become familiar with who's good and who's not.... it ain't that difficult to be able to recognize the guys who make impact plays and who become known commodities... look at the Eagles... they don't go after small school wonders... more often than not, in recent drafts, they've gone after known guys, from major programs, who have a history of production... quote: I hope the guy turns out to be great, we all do, as Saints fans... however... quote: I have no insight to know for sure that the guy’s gonna suck like some of you think you do. sure you do... all you have to do is look at his production in his 6 years in college... what has he done of worth? what has he accomplished? not really that much of anything? now, ask yourself, if he hasn't done all that much in college, a lower level of competition and ability, what makes you think he will be able to all of a sudden produce MORE at a higher level of competition and ability?
Jesus Christ, there is so much wrong with this!
Are you saying watching a little football tape makes someone qualified to run a football scouting department as well as the guys doing it professionally?! Are you saying you can do it successfully in the NFL because you watch enough football?! That’s what you’re saying!
Holy shite, I’ve seen it all now! Did you look at the Allen example? His profile wasn’t impressive other than physical traits. His production against a low level of competition was not great, his completion percentage was awful, ability to adjust at the LOS and process coverages was below average. But the bastard is an NFL MVP now. You could have predicted that based on your experience watching enough football? You said:
quote:
what has he done of worth? what has he accomplished? not really that much of anything? now, ask yourself, if he hasn't done all that much in college, a lower level of competition and ability, what makes you think he will be able to all of a sudden produce MORE at a higher level of competition and ability?
Well Allen sure as hell has done it. So I’m guessing your “watched-enough-football” scouting philosophy isn’t foolproof, now is it?
I swear you guys are so damn anxious to be right, even if the Saints fail, just do you can come back and say “I told you so, I could be an NFL GM!”
Well guess what, I can’t f’ing stand Mickey Loomis and his failures. But hell, I sure as hell hope some of you guys are wrong and Shough or whichever players you “know” are horrible picks turn out to win some damn football games for us. Unbelievable.
Posted on 4/26/25 at 4:29 pm to chRxis
quote:
you make it seem like it's rocket science.... look, if you watch a ton of football, you become familiar with who's good and who's not.... it ain't that difficult to be able to recognize the guys who make impact plays and who become known commodities... look at the Eagles... they don't go after small school wonders... more often than not, in recent drafts, they've gone after known guys, from major programs, who have a history of production... quote: I hope the guy turns out to be great, we all do, as Saints fans... however... quote: I have no insight to know for sure that the guy’s gonna suck like some of you think you do. sure you do... all you have to do is look at his production in his 6 years in college... what has he done of worth? what has he accomplished? not really that much of anything? now, ask yourself, if he hasn't done all that much in college, a lower level of competition and ability, what makes you think he will be able to all of a sudden produce MORE at a higher level of competition and ability?
Jesus Christ, there is so much wrong with this!
Are you saying watching a little football tape makes someone qualified to run a football scouting department as well as the guys doing it professionally?! Are you saying you can do it successfully in the NFL because you watch enough football?! That’s what you’re saying!
Holy shite, I’ve seen it all now! Did you look at the Allen example? His profile wasn’t impressive other than physical traits. His production against a low level of competition was not great, his completion percentage was awful, ability to adjust at the LOS and process coverages was below average. But the bastard is an NFL MVP now. You could have predicted that based on your experience watching enough football? You said:
quote:
what has he done of worth? what has he accomplished? not really that much of anything? now, ask yourself, if he hasn't done all that much in college, a lower level of competition and ability, what makes you think he will be able to all of a sudden produce MORE at a higher level of competition and ability?
Well Allen sure as hell has done it. So I’m guessing your “watched-enough-football” scouting philosophy isn’t foolproof, now is it?
I swear you guys are so damn anxious to be right, even if the Saints fail, just do you can come back and say “I told you so, I could be an NFL GM!”
Well guess what, I can’t f’ing stand Mickey Loomis and his failures. But hell, I sure as hell hope some of you guys are wrong and Shough or whichever players you “know” are horrible picks turn out to win some damn football games for us. Unbelievable.
Posted on 4/26/25 at 4:34 pm to saintsfan22
quote:
Or even simpler. What makes anyone think he'll stay healthy in the pros? Everybody hates that our players are always hurt and we draft one of the most injury riddled guys available.
Incorrect. Had a shoulder injury and team chose not to surgery. Didn’t heal as expected so surgery done and corrected. No problems with the shoulder. Other two season-enders were broken bones. He was slammed down and broke a collarbone. Then he broke a leg. Both healed fine. He doesn’t have a genetic-type condition that makes him more susceptible to injuries than anyone else. I thought you “watched-enough-football” GMs would know this.
Posted on 4/26/25 at 4:38 pm to BilJ
We need the GM that built the contender we had late 2000s and 2017-2020
Posted on 4/26/25 at 4:39 pm to LSUChamps03
quote:
Are you saying watching a little football tape makes someone qualified to run a football scouting department as well as the guys doing it professionally?!
no, not at all... but can you really not tell good players from not so good players, when you watch football? most guys I know can... maybe you are overthinking this, way too much... not sure
quote:
Are you saying you can do it successfully in the NFL because you watch enough football?! That’s what you’re saying!
no, but if you want to extrapolate and add hyperbole, do what you gotta do, I guess...
quote:
So I’m guessing your “watched-enough-football” scouting philosophy isn’t foolproof, now is it?
of course not... but then again, neither are the guys who are paid professionals... with all their research, talent evaluation, interviews, methodology, etc they miss on guys too... so what's your point?
quote:
, I sure as hell hope some of you guys are wrong and Shough or whichever players you “know” are horrible picks turn out to win some damn football games for us
me too! i'm PRAYING i'm wrong about Shough... i'll gladly take the L if i'm wrong about him... GLADLY... I just don't think I will be though... time will tell... bookmark this one if you want and we can revisit it down the road...
Posted on 4/26/25 at 4:40 pm to LSUChamps03
I remember watching the Senior Bowl practices when Josh Allen was there and he was having a real hard time hitting the receivers on Target
I mean we're not talking pressure on him or anything
Just missing throws.
As much as I like to go watch all the players from time to time at the Senior Bowl, those 3 or 4 days where they're out there competing sometimes is made out to be a lot more than it really is
I mean if I remember right the feedback on Alan wasn't all that great like you could tell. He had a strong arm but was he going to be accurate and now look at him one of the best quarterbacks in the game
I mean we're not talking pressure on him or anything
Just missing throws.
As much as I like to go watch all the players from time to time at the Senior Bowl, those 3 or 4 days where they're out there competing sometimes is made out to be a lot more than it really is
I mean if I remember right the feedback on Alan wasn't all that great like you could tell. He had a strong arm but was he going to be accurate and now look at him one of the best quarterbacks in the game
Posted on 4/26/25 at 4:44 pm to BilJ
quote:
Look at the state of this roster, our FO doesn’t get the benefit of “well they know better “
No playoffs the last half decade, Vegas has us with the worse roster in the league. Not one all pro player at an offensive or defensive position.
But Loomis knows better than us duuuurrr
This post was edited on 4/26/25 at 4:45 pm
Posted on 4/26/25 at 4:48 pm to Townedrunkard
quote:
Not one all pro player at an offensive or defensive position.
well, when you are taking a bunch of guys from the likes of Old Dominion, Eastern Kentucky, Northern Iowa, etc, rather than from LSU, Georgia, Alabama, etc, that sorta explains it...
Posted on 4/26/25 at 4:51 pm to LooseCannon22282
A draft guy on Twitter posted recently that Josh Allen succeeding set back NFL QB scouting for years and it’s pretty interesting. His college stats weren’t even good (16/6 TD/INT his final year, 56% completion percentage), he just was a big guy with a huge arm and above average athleticism that happened to work out.
This post was edited on 4/26/25 at 4:52 pm
Posted on 4/26/25 at 5:10 pm to chRxis
quote:
me too! i'm PRAYING i'm wrong about Shough... i'll gladly take the L if i'm wrong about him... GLADLY... I just don't think I will be though... time will tell... bookmark this one if you want and we can revisit it down the road...
Fair enough, that’s all I’m proposing is that we don’t really know? And I get it, I watch a lot of ball and think I know the good ones from the bad ones, but football scouting is no science.
The Saints have hit on some small-college guys like Evans, Bushrod, Armstead - OL that you could say pushed around lesser talented players. But they became good-great professionals. They’ve missed on them too at valuable picks like Penning, Davenport, exacerbated by giving up valuable future picks to get them.
They’ve also missed on bigger school guys like Jean-Baptiste, Foskey, Sullivan, etc. (too exhausted to look at the list). But I’d submit that the players they’ve drafted have generally been within the range they were projected to go. Without being a whiz on every other teams’ draft histories I’d imagine hit-miss ratio is roughly similar. Surely some stand out as excellent personnel/scouting departments vs the field, but no team is sweeping their draft picks every year.
So yeah, I’ve witnessed the failures in the Saints’ personnel and draft efforts. I don’t blindly trust Loomis to do anything - I think he’s the most comfortable GM in all of sports because he’s a de facto owner under an owner who had two professional sports teams fall into her lap. She has to rely on someone, and Mickey, Dennis and Greg are those she’s picked, unfortunately.
So yeah, let’s take a look at this later. You may be right. I’ve not taken a position other than wait and see. Initially I didn’t like the pick, especially with who was left on the board. But I’m reminded Moore is our coach now, so I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt. As Bill Parcells said, if you want your coach to cook you gotta let him buy the groceries.
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