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re: Question about the Algerian shemale boxer:
Posted on 8/1/24 at 4:41 pm to HuskyPanda
Posted on 8/1/24 at 4:41 pm to HuskyPanda
quote:
Also if she were a man, it is illegal in her country to transition.
What if XY and had under developed male genitalia due to androgen insensitivity that could have been treated. The country is one likely to push to female from the start including by the doctor due to undeveloped genitalia at birth. Doctors in the US used to make that same choice decades ago. I think one doctor and parents even made this choice after screwing up a circumcision or something like that. It’s the true “assigned at birth” not what left says.
This is based on the boxers actually testing as XY which some report and some do not. I am not aware if anything has come up more on this one aspect today.
EDIT: There is also another abnormality 5a-Reductase 2 deficiency that affects fetal sexual differentiation but not adolescent which in its most extreme form can initially display some genitalia ambiguity at birth to a micro but virilize to varying degrees at puberty without treatment.
quote:
5aR2D is a result of impaired 5aR2 activity resulting in decreased DHT levels. This defect results in a spectrum of phenotypes including overt genital ambiguity, hypospadias, and micropenis. Affected males still develop typical masculine features at puberty (deep voice, facial hair, muscle bulk) since most aspects of pubertal virilization are driven by testosterone, not DHT.
They have also been incorrectly raised as female in the past.
quote:
Historically most 5aR2D individuals have been "raised as females", but later reports show that over half of patients who underwent virilizing puberty adopted a male gender identity thus challenging historical practices.
This post was edited on 8/1/24 at 6:16 pm
0
Posted on 8/1/24 at 4:41 pm to Funky Tide 8
quote:
seriously? wtf is all the hubbub about then?
She naturally, due to the medical condition she was born with, produces testosterone at a high enough level that it is an issue when compared to the women she is competing against. If another "normal" competitor tested for similar levels of testosterone she would likely be banned for doping.
The issue is one of fairness and ethics.
Posted on 8/1/24 at 4:52 pm to LegendInMyMind
I find this topic interesting. Plenty of elite athletes have genetic anomalies. For example, elite cyclist has freak of nature cardiovascular systems, plenty of NFL players have crazy high natural testosterone levels, etc. This one just happens to cross the gender threshold, which is the most prevalent factor in subdividing sports. Part of me thinks it sucks for her to get banned for something she had no control over, but I agree that it's such an unfair advantage and since it impacts hormones, they should have drawn a line.
Posted on 8/1/24 at 4:53 pm to billjamin
Yeah, it isn't as cut and dry, or as inflammatory, as many are making it out to be.
Posted on 8/1/24 at 4:58 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
This person is not a transgender. She/he has some kind of genetic anomaly.
Has boxer released medical records to any boxing authority or elsewhere?
If XY and identifying as female the boxer is transgender even if it was a choice the doctor and parents incorrectly made at birth instead of treating abnormality correctly.
This post was edited on 8/1/24 at 6:17 pm
Posted on 8/1/24 at 5:00 pm to BFIV
Gold medal in domestic violence
Posted on 8/1/24 at 5:04 pm to holdmuh keystonelite
quote:
chromosone/hormone drugs
What are chromosome drugs?
Posted on 8/1/24 at 5:06 pm to billjamin
quote:
I find this topic interesting. Plenty of elite athletes have genetic anomalies. For example, elite cyclist has freak of nature cardiovascular systems, plenty of NFL players have crazy high natural testosterone levels, etc. This one just happens to cross the gender threshold, which is the most prevalent factor in subdividing sports. Part of me thinks it sucks for her to get banned for something she had no control over, but I agree that it's such an unfair advantage and since it impacts hormones, they should have drawn a line.
Supposedly Big Red has a big heart
Posted on 8/1/24 at 5:09 pm to bad93ex
quote:
Amazing how everyone switched from being a scholar on Greek art to medical conditions overnight
First day? It’s the OT. We all know everything about everything.
Posted on 8/1/24 at 5:32 pm to KAHog
quote:
First day? It’s the OT. We all know everything about everything.
I have been an expert on XY “females” ever since I watched the House MD episode - Skin Deep with Cameron Richardson (Kidding but I did have to look it up to see if looking like her was remotely possible and not known for so long by anyone).
Her character was a complete androgen insensitivity syndrome case where the testosterone did nothing in development and converted to estrogen (not what character went in for but ended up being cause of the reason for symptoms after the usual amount of incorrect diagnoses & treatments and sarcastic remarks).
It made me ponder the XY and no ability for kids versus someone with her looks and zero menstrual cycles…
This post was edited on 8/1/24 at 7:17 pm
Posted on 8/1/24 at 5:54 pm to Salmon
Probably cut one and a half of her balls out and it would be fair again.
If I had a vagina I would get somebody to take out my nuts, but that’s just me.
If I had a vagina I would get somebody to take out my nuts, but that’s just me.
Posted on 8/1/24 at 6:03 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
Yea, she/he/it is one of the rare intersex anomalies that the trans people want you to think is very common and they all are that.
Without stretching definition it is usually placed at 0.018% of births, and this number can include mild or some partial androgen insensitivity who have developed enough even without treatment to still be viewed as male at birth.
This post was edited on 8/1/24 at 6:19 pm
Posted on 8/1/24 at 6:07 pm to baybeefeetz
quote:
If I had a vagina
What do you mean, "if"?
Posted on 8/1/24 at 6:10 pm to F1y0n7h3W4LL
That’s a man, baby
Posted on 8/1/24 at 6:10 pm to BFIV
She was born male but with deformed genitalia that didn’t fully form if I recall. At the time, chromosomal testing wasn’t that available to the average person much less in Algeria.
Her family raised her as female, but recent testing showed she was technically a biological male (XY). Thus with the high testosterone, world championships banned her, and sadly it is the right thing to do.
Olympics said hold my beer and said the opposite to pander. After the opening ceremonies, you now know why this athlete was allowed to participate in the women’s competition.
So to not alienate the 0.00000001%, you alienate and cheat the 99.99999999%.
It sucks for her, but it’s an I fair advantage and unsafe.
Her family raised her as female, but recent testing showed she was technically a biological male (XY). Thus with the high testosterone, world championships banned her, and sadly it is the right thing to do.
Olympics said hold my beer and said the opposite to pander. After the opening ceremonies, you now know why this athlete was allowed to participate in the women’s competition.
So to not alienate the 0.00000001%, you alienate and cheat the 99.99999999%.
It sucks for her, but it’s an I fair advantage and unsafe.
Posted on 8/1/24 at 6:15 pm to cbree88
Posted on 8/1/24 at 6:15 pm to No Colors
quote:
But she has a high level of T due to the presence of the testicles.
Well...and that "y" chromosome thing.
Scientifically a he.
Posted on 8/1/24 at 6:16 pm to BFIV
it looks like IT is one in a billion kind of anomaly, and IT should not be competing against women. 
Posted on 8/1/24 at 6:21 pm to dallastigers
quote:
Without stretching definition is usually placed at 0.018% of births, and this number can include mild or some partial androgen insensitivity who have developed enough even without treatment to still be viewed as male at birth.
I know someone who was born with neither male nor female sex organs, they had nothing. I think it was more or less the same internally. At that time further testing at the chromosoma level hadn't really gotten going. The parents chose to raise then kid as a girl. Going on three decades later and it has become clear (it was years ago) that was the "wrong choice". It was an impossible decision to make.
I fault the kid for no choice she makes in regards to her sex life. She has gone on to be a successful, well-adjusted adult. That's all you can ask.
Posted on 8/1/24 at 6:48 pm to LegendInMyMind
quote:
Yeah, it isn't as cut and dry, or as inflammatory, as many are making it out to be.
Agreed. She's a special case. But it's such a small occurrance we should be able to deal with them individually. In this case, this is a man with testicles making testosterone. I would assume that means she's an XY. She shouldn't be fighting women. Not competitively.
We have to get over our inclination to play to the outliers and try to do what's right for the rest. Life ain't fair. Not our fault.
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