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re: The average US house now requires a salary of $106k-a-year - $50k more than in 2020
Posted on 3/5/24 at 11:33 am to BoogaBear
Posted on 3/5/24 at 11:33 am to BoogaBear
quote:
Plenty of us millennials have done the same thing and own homes and not shitty starter homes.
Good for you. You got yours. That doesn’t mean a huge chunk of the population isn’t struggling to afford the same things. Like I said, it’s often difficult for people who aren’t struggling to recognize that other people are for any reasons other than effort or skill. There are some seriously bad economic trends playing out. Be thankful you rose above them, congratulations.
0
Posted on 3/5/24 at 11:33 am to stout
quote:
Look, I have been a local contractor forever
In Louisiana?
I was a steel subcontractor in LA for a decade, pay sucks there compared to most places.
The quality of worker does too. Thats why few companies relocate there.
This post was edited on 3/5/24 at 11:34 am
Posted on 3/5/24 at 11:35 am to RogerTheShrubber
Yep, I remember being a teen working summers for $8/hr as an ironworker helper.
Posted on 3/5/24 at 11:36 am to kingbob
quote:
Yep, I remember being a teen working summers for $8/hr as an ironworker helper.
Journeymen in La were making $10 when I sold my part of the biz and left.
Late 80s and early 90s.
Louisiana had a program where you could hire recently released felons and they would pay half the wages.
For real. 
Posted on 3/5/24 at 11:38 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
A roofer isn't a middle class job, dude. A guy who puts up fences isn't someone with a middle class job.
You have no idea that those guys often make more than the majority of the people you listed
quote:
Teachers, fire/police/EMS, secretaries, truck drivers, plant supervisors, nurses, etc...
Just because being a roofer isn't desirable doesn't mean it doesn't earn middle-class wages. What you don't realize is there are levels to even roofing. Yes, there are low wage guys on the crew but there are also the guys that do the actual roofing and know what they are doing. You aren't getting a good roofer these days for less than $25 per hour minimum. That's more than a teacher salary in LA. More than a secretary for damn sure and probably up there with a lot of your list.
You are looking down on a job due to description and I am looking at it based on earnings since that is how middle class is accounted for.
Posted on 3/5/24 at 11:41 am to stout
quote:
You are looking down on a job due to description
I think he's stating reality.
Roofing isnt' really considered skilled labor and there is no real path through an apprenticeship
Imported labor destroyed that labor market for workers.
Posted on 3/5/24 at 11:43 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Roofing isnt' really considered skilled labor and there is no real path through an apprenticeship
What does that have to do with it earning middle-class wages or not?
We are strictly talking about wages. Nothing else matters when classifying what is middle-class income.
Posted on 3/5/24 at 11:43 am to stout
My wife and I are pretty fortunate, have been fairly conservative with our money. I would hate to be trying to get ahead right now. Groceries alone are eating us alive. Two growing boys and us we are seeing that bill go up at least 100 bucks a week. Insurance, up. Clothing, up. Utilities, up. Vacations, up. Everything in life is thru the roof, to have enough left over to buy a home would require a whole lot more than I had when I started.
Posted on 3/5/24 at 11:46 am to tigerfoot
quote:
Groceries alone are eating us alive.
I go to Walmart, Costco, and Publix every Sunday and still spend $300/week on food and necessities. It’s absurd.
This post was edited on 3/5/24 at 11:55 am
Posted on 3/5/24 at 11:46 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
A roofer isn't a middle class job, dude.
Definitely could be a lower to middle middle class income.
Posted on 3/5/24 at 11:48 am to stout
quote:
What does that have to do with it earning middle-class wages or not?
The unskilled labor pool is massive, wages are flatter than Taylor Swifts arse compared to inflation.
Posted on 3/5/24 at 11:49 am to StringedInstruments
Nothing made it more evident than my not buying any crawfish yet this season.
Posted on 3/5/24 at 11:50 am to Jcorye1
quote:
Definitely could be a lower to middle middle class income.
An actual roofer (not the helpers but the guys laying the shingles) can easily be in the middle class strictly based on earnings.
Which proves my point that mmmmmbear saying illegals aren't taking middle class jobs is a lie that Dems often repeat to make what they are doing OK.
Posted on 3/5/24 at 11:51 am to stout
quote:
stout
There's a whole world out there outside of construction. I know you're in the business, and it's also the business (outside of restaurants and landscaping) with the most illegals, so your view is skewed.
When I say the middle class is shrinking at an alarming rate, I'm not just talking about fricking construction, man.
Let me repeat, 2024 is the first year in US history when the wealth of the top 1% EXCEEDS the wealth of the bottom 50% COMBINED. These are US citizens in this statistic, not illegals who are off the rolls.
This is not a good development. Personally, I'm firmly in the upper class, but still find things to be tight sometimes and, while my pay is good, raises are very difficult to come by. I can't imagine trying to make it these days as a member of the middle class. It's awful for our country.
Class Quintet Breakdown
Posted on 3/5/24 at 11:54 am to stout
quote:
Which proves my point that mmmmmbear saying illegals aren't taking middle class jobs is a lie that Dems often repeat to make what they are doing OK.
I helped roof my own house (in shade, but still...) and realize how difficult a job it is. I respect the hell out of those who do it every day.
But its still unskilled labor, and is easily replaced which means wages will remain flat.
Posted on 3/5/24 at 11:56 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
The unskilled labor pool is massive, wages are flatter than Taylor Swifts arse compared to inflation.
I see unskilled labor as the helpers and shingle runners if we want to keep this to roofing and yes those wages are flat. The guys that actually lay the shingles have a skill and earn based on that skill. You and mmmmcreampie keep acting like every member of a crew are all on the same level. You can mess a roof up pretty bad if you don't have experience and just like anything else experience earns.
Let's switch to a frame in crews. On a framing crew there are A Class carpenters, B class, and helpers, Just because they are framers doesn't mean they don't have a skill even though that is a labor job. Do you think knowing how to cut in rafters isn't a skill worthy of a decent wage? Again, those guys earn middle-class money and again many of those jobs have been taken over by illegals.
Posted on 3/5/24 at 11:57 am to mmmmmbeeer
The "good roofer", who you exclaimed can make $25/hr, is lower middle class.
Lower class: This is defined as the bottom 20% of earners. Those in the lower class have an income at or below $28,007. $14/HR or less
Lower middle class: This is defined as individuals in the 20th to 40th percentile of household income. Earnings among this group are between $28,008 and $55,000 $14-$26/hr
Middle class: The middle class is officially those whose earnings put them in the 40th to 60th percentile of household income. The income range is $55,001 to $89,744. $26-$43/hr
Upper middle class: Anyone with earnings in the 60th to 80th percentile would be considered upper middle class. Those in the upper middle class have incomes between $89,745 and $149,131. $26-$71/hr
Upper class: Finally, the upper class is the top 20% of earners and they have incomes of $149,132 or higher. $71+/hr
Lower class: This is defined as the bottom 20% of earners. Those in the lower class have an income at or below $28,007. $14/HR or less
Lower middle class: This is defined as individuals in the 20th to 40th percentile of household income. Earnings among this group are between $28,008 and $55,000 $14-$26/hr
Middle class: The middle class is officially those whose earnings put them in the 40th to 60th percentile of household income. The income range is $55,001 to $89,744. $26-$43/hr
Upper middle class: Anyone with earnings in the 60th to 80th percentile would be considered upper middle class. Those in the upper middle class have incomes between $89,745 and $149,131. $26-$71/hr
Upper class: Finally, the upper class is the top 20% of earners and they have incomes of $149,132 or higher. $71+/hr
Posted on 3/5/24 at 11:57 am to stout
quote:
You and mmmmcreampie keep acting like every member of a crew are all on the same leve
Not at all, but there is a clear distinction between skilled and unskilled labor.
The unskilled pool is greater than the need, wages will remain flat.
Importing millions of illegals helps keep wages flat.
Jobs that require more certifications will remain higher paying. The more barriers, the fewer applicants.
This post was edited on 3/5/24 at 12:00 pm
Posted on 3/5/24 at 12:00 pm to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
2024 is the first year in US history when the wealth of the top 1% EXCEEDS the wealth of the bottom 50% COMBINED. These are US citizens in this statistic, not illegals who are off the rolls.
You don't even realize why this is happening. Hint...it's not because corporations raise prices and don't increase pay at a higher rate.
Read this
Low interest rates are mostly to blame for the wealth gap increase. If anything you should be cheering on higher rates as that pretty much puts an end to wealth creation out of thin air.
This post was edited on 3/5/24 at 12:06 pm
Posted on 3/5/24 at 12:03 pm to kingbob
quote:
Equivalent to $99,529.29 today.
House cost was equivalent to $234,954,38 today, but I bet that house ACTUALLY costs upwards of $400k if it were on the market.
I’ll try to eat less avocado toast so I can be frugal like you were ?
With ZERO student loans, too. Boomers went to school for next to nothing, then jacked the prices up by 500% for the next generation.
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