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Message
Small Diameter versus Standard Diameter arrows
Posted on 5/9/18 at 9:38 am
Posted on 5/9/18 at 9:38 am
I’m buying arrows and I’m seeing that the higher end arrows are a smaller diameter or OD. What are the advantages and disadvantages to using a smaller arrow?
In the past I’ve always used the Standard OD arrow.
In the past I’ve always used the Standard OD arrow.
7
Posted on 5/9/18 at 9:39 am to eyepooted
faster
Posted on 5/9/18 at 9:41 am to eyepooted
If you're taking farther shots on big game (elk, mule deer, etc) it's less surface area for the wind to effect it.
You'll still have drift but it'll be a little less
You'll still have drift but it'll be a little less
Posted on 5/9/18 at 9:52 am to eyepooted
Not sure if same design of arrows you're talking about but my first carbon fiber arrows had small shaft and the "head" for the tips slipped over the shaft instead of inside of it. This made it a PITA to pull out of most targets and would frequently lose the "outserts" and field tips inside the target. I will never go back to having any leading part of the arrow larger than the shaft.
Posted on 5/9/18 at 10:15 am to Chuker
Ah ok it sounds like it reduces wind drift. Thanks for the answers.
Posted on 5/9/18 at 10:32 am to eyepooted
Lowers drag in all aspects. during flight and during penetration.
Target guys like the fat arrows because it increases allowable margin of error, albeit minimal
Target guys like the fat arrows because it increases allowable margin of error, albeit minimal
Posted on 5/9/18 at 10:37 am to eyepooted
I prefer smaller diameter, as they get better penetration and pass through if equipped properly.
But the metric you need to worry about is the weight - a small diameter arrow does nothing if not used correctly.
You need to keep arrow and broadhead weight between 330-450 for whitetail and 450 and above for big game like Elk.
But the metric you need to worry about is the weight - a small diameter arrow does nothing if not used correctly.
You need to keep arrow and broadhead weight between 330-450 for whitetail and 450 and above for big game like Elk.
Posted on 5/9/18 at 10:58 am to eyepooted
I prefer larger diameter arrows but then again I’m over compensating for something else.
Posted on 5/9/18 at 10:59 am to Warrior Poet
why would you have an upper limit on weight for the arrows used on whitetail?
Posted on 5/9/18 at 11:06 am to eyepooted
smaller arrow = higher velocity
Posted on 5/9/18 at 11:08 am to Bleeding purple
quote:
why would you have an upper limit on weight for the arrows used on whitetail?
because of the "drop."
Whitetails are notorious for dropping at the sound of an arrow releasing, so at some point the benefits of an increased grain arrow are outweighed by the loss in speed. Personally I would not recommend going over 400 grains for a whitetail setup, but I've seen them up to 450.
Posted on 5/9/18 at 11:48 am to eyepooted
Would differences in stiffness be of any concern?
(with respect to arrows)
(with respect to arrows)
Posted on 5/9/18 at 1:41 pm to Warrior Poet
quote:Unless you're shooting a broadhead smaller than the arrow diameter then it'll do noting for "pass through / penetration"
I prefer smaller diameter, as they get better penetration and pass through if equipped properly.
Posted on 5/9/18 at 2:29 pm to Warrior Poet
quote:
because of the "drop." Whitetails are notorious for dropping at the sound of an arrow releasing, so at some point the benefits of an increased grain arrow are outweighed by the loss in speed. Personally I would not recommend going over 400 grains for a whitetail setup, but I've seen them up to 450.
So you’re saying the optimal arrow/broadhead combo would be 400? 300 grain arrow and 100 grain broadhead?
Posted on 5/9/18 at 2:41 pm to mylsuhat
quote:
Unless you're shooting a broadhead smaller than the arrow diameter then it'll do noting for "pass through / penetration"
The issue was debated to death when I first started bow hunting years ago before carbon arrows were popular, and most have found a combination of factors with smaller diameter arrows increases penetration into the animals (and therefore pass-through). The advantage is particularly evident in animals with thinner hides like whitetails (their hides start to thicken as bow season comes to an end).
The narrower shafts offer greater speed and kinetic energy in a more confined space, both of which are factors that can increase arrow penetration if combined with the correct equipment. keyword "if equipped properly." They of course also offer better accuracy in windy conditions as others have said.
https://www.bowhuntingmag.com/gear-accessories/do-small-diameter-shafts-maximize-arrow-penetration/#ixzz5F2AfAvHA
quote:
Interpreting the Results So, what does all this mean? Clearly, our results show that small-diameter shafts offer a penetration advantage over larger-diameter shafts — though there is no denying the level of advantage seems to vary based on what is screwed onto the end of the arrow (fieldpoint, fixed-blade broadhead, mechanical, etc.).
https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/articles/deer-news/skinny-beautiful-go-thin-bowhunting-arrows
quote:
Skinny arrows are destined to become the next big thing in bowhunting. The advantages are very real. If you’re a bowhunter looking for more penetration from less draw weight/shorter draw lengths, skinnier, heavier arrows are where it’s at.
Easton poineered the movement. They advertise the FMJ (which is what I shoot) as an arrow capable of increased penetration in animals.
https://eastonhunting.com/find-out-why-small-diameter-arrows-are-better-for-hunting/
Posted on 5/9/18 at 2:49 pm to eyepooted
quote:
So you’re saying the optimal arrow/broadhead combo would be 400? 300 grain arrow and 100 grain broadhead?
400 is a good generalization. I think the setup I shot last year was 430 after it was all said and done, but I normally shoot slightly under 400.
What is optimal for you will depend on your setup. What's your bow and its IBO, what broadhead are you shooting, what animals are you hunting, what distances are you shooting, and where are you hunting?
Posted on 5/9/18 at 3:15 pm to Warrior Poet
quote:
Whitetails are notorious for dropping at the sound of an arrow releasing,
If I may add to this statement.
Deer jump string at the sound of the bow going off. A quieter bow is always better than a fast bow , in this regard. Why? Because no matter how many pounds you are pulling shooting light arrows to get a 350 fps set up for hunting, it flat doesn't matter when relating to deer jumping string. Sound travels at roughly 980 fps, so the sound of your bow going off is getting to the deer three times faster than your fastest arrow.
Where speed does help is in flattening the arrows trajectory for a given distance and for compensating for errors in judging yardage....at reasonable hunting distances.
Another thing to factor in is that when a deer jumps string it's not trying to avoid the arrow...it's merely dropping to load it's body to propel it out of the area quicker, the same as if you get suprised and lower your torso to plant your feet and haul arse the other direction from what spooked you. The good news is what goes down must come back up, for the most part. The worst distance I have found for deer jumping string is in the 30 yard range. At that distance it is more common than not for the deer to be at it's lowest point in the drop as it plants it's hooves to change direction/distance itself from the "strange noise" it just heard.
Now at @ 40 yds the deer's body would be heading back up to nearly the spot where it was when the bow went off. Have seen this when shooting at two does in the same exact spot (39 yds) roughly 5 minutes apart. Held too low on first deer compensating for expected string-jump. (she had gotten a whiff of me and was on edge.). Held just under heart and missed by a c-hair as she was headed back up after the drop. Second doe showed up exact same spot 5 min's. later. Held same pin middle of chest and hit within 1/2' of my aimpoint. She also dropped at the shot but was back up as arrow got there.(bow set-up shooting @ 270fps)
Bottom line....I want both a quick bow , but one that is quiet as possible at the shot. But if I had to lean one way or the other I'll take quiet over speed every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Posted on 5/9/18 at 6:47 pm to Warrior Poet
Great discussion we have going here.
Hoyt Alphamax 32
IBO ?
Rage Hypodermic and Bloodsport Extreme Gravediggers
Whitetails
5-45 yards
NW Oklahoma
quote:
What is optimal for you will depend on your setup. What's your bow and its IBO, what broadhead are you shooting, what animals are you hunting, what distances are you shooting, and where are you hunting?
Hoyt Alphamax 32
IBO ?
Rage Hypodermic and Bloodsport Extreme Gravediggers
Whitetails
5-45 yards
NW Oklahoma
Posted on 5/10/18 at 11:48 am to eyepooted
It looks like you're shooting an IBO speed of 320 fps. IBO is the accepted speed calculation for bows (International Bowhunting Organization) in the industry; it's required to be on the bow if the manufacturer is going to advertise its speed.
You shoot a good broadhead (I'm assuming 100 gr.?), but one thing you want to be cautious of in using the Hypodermic is not to have too heavy of a setup pushing it through. They do well with a heavy arrow to ensure proper mechanical operation, but too heavy and you could see some problems and probably break it after one shot.
I would absolutely use a small diameter arrow with your setup. I'd go for a 280, 300, or 330 grain arrow. Your bow is right on that line where it could handle a heavier arrow but probably would operate better if it shot an arrow designed for under 300 fps.
A couple of suggestions for arrows:
Easton 6mm HEXX 330 gr. arrow ( https://eastonhunting.com/target/6mm-hexx/)
Easton 5mm AXIS 300 gr. ( https://eastonhunting.com/target/5mm-axis-2/)
Beman ICS has some good options too, but I just prefer Easton these days and have moved away from Gold Tip.
My suggestion is the Beaman HEXX. I've shot that and the AXIS and really liked both of them.
You shoot a good broadhead (I'm assuming 100 gr.?), but one thing you want to be cautious of in using the Hypodermic is not to have too heavy of a setup pushing it through. They do well with a heavy arrow to ensure proper mechanical operation, but too heavy and you could see some problems and probably break it after one shot.
I would absolutely use a small diameter arrow with your setup. I'd go for a 280, 300, or 330 grain arrow. Your bow is right on that line where it could handle a heavier arrow but probably would operate better if it shot an arrow designed for under 300 fps.
A couple of suggestions for arrows:
Easton 6mm HEXX 330 gr. arrow ( https://eastonhunting.com/target/6mm-hexx/)
Easton 5mm AXIS 300 gr. ( https://eastonhunting.com/target/5mm-axis-2/)
Beman ICS has some good options too, but I just prefer Easton these days and have moved away from Gold Tip.
My suggestion is the Beaman HEXX. I've shot that and the AXIS and really liked both of them.
This post was edited on 5/10/18 at 11:49 am
Posted on 5/10/18 at 11:55 am to AUTimbo
quote:
If I may add to this statement.
Deer jump string at the sound of the bow going off. A quieter bow is always better than a fast bow , in this regard. Why? Because no matter how many pounds you are pulling shooting light arrows to get a 350 fps set up for hunting, it flat doesn't matter when relating to deer jumping string. Sound travels at roughly 980 fps, so the sound of your bow going off is getting to the deer three times faster than your fastest arrow.
Where speed does help is in flattening the arrows trajectory for a given distance and for compensating for errors in judging yardage....at reasonable hunting distances.
Another thing to factor in is that when a deer jumps string it's not trying to avoid the arrow...it's merely dropping to load it's body to propel it out of the area quicker, the same as if you get suprised and lower your torso to plant your feet and haul arse the other direction from what spooked you. The good news is what goes down must come back up, for the most part. The worst distance I have found for deer jumping string is in the 30 yard range. At that distance it is more common than not for the deer to be at it's lowest point in the drop as it plants it's hooves to change direction/distance itself from the "strange noise" it just heard.
Now at @ 40 yds the deer's body would be heading back up to nearly the spot where it was when the bow went off. Have seen this when shooting at two does in the same exact spot (39 yds) roughly 5 minutes apart. Held too low on first deer compensating for expected string-jump. (she had gotten a whiff of me and was on edge.). Held just under heart and missed by a c-hair as she was headed back up after the drop. Second doe showed up exact same spot 5 min's. later. Held same pin middle of chest and hit within 1/2' of my aimpoint. She also dropped at the shot but was back up as arrow got there.(bow set-up shooting @ 270fps)
Bottom line....I want both a quick bow , but one that is quiet as possible at the shot. But if I had to lean one way or the other I'll take quiet over speed every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
You are absolutely right; I shoot a Mathews Halon 32 so I have the best of both worlds. My expectation in a newer bow (say, mfg after 2010) is that it is extremely quiet.
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