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re: CNN – It’s a Conspiracy Theory to Say That America is a Republic and Not a Democracy
Posted on 6/15/24 at 1:34 pm to Mike da Tigah
Posted on 6/15/24 at 1:34 pm to Mike da Tigah
quote:
Certainly we’re a Republic, a democratically elected and represented Republic, but certainly a far cry from a pure direct democracy or else we would have no Constitutional rights at this point, or rather none that were safe.
And when the Democrats talk about democracy, they don’t want a direct democracy either, just a new republic without the current constitution and their own laws and rules put into place, not what the majority might actually vote on.
1
Posted on 6/15/24 at 1:42 pm to SCLibertarian
quote:
What's hilarious is that the "democracy" which SFP has been simping for this entire thread isn't even actual democracy. Western leftists don't actually respect the will of people. Look at the recent EU parliamentary elections. The establishment is now telling us that democratic election results are a threat to "our democracy". Our democracy is simply a euphemism for the neoliberal power structure.
I LITERALLY already covered that
quote:
Now, the histrionics relating to attacking our democracy are clearly overblown partisan talking points, but, if you understand what a republic is, and what democracy is, it's clear that you can remove the democracy part of our government while maintaining the republic. That is what the (histrionic, emotional, and partisan) talking point is saying.
Posted on page 1
Posted on 6/15/24 at 1:46 pm to dgnx6
quote:
, they don’t want a direct democracy either
Many Progressives and Democratic Socialists do. For now, until they gain power. I bet they would then change their minds.
Posted on 6/15/24 at 1:47 pm to SCLibertarian
quote:
What's hilarious is that the "democracy" which SFP has been simping for this entire thread isn't even actual democracy
Leftists love democracy so long as they get the outcome they want. When the outcome isn’t what they want, they’ll do anything to subvert the will of the people.
Posted on 6/15/24 at 1:51 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
We are a democracy and a republic.
No we are not. If we were a democracy in any form, then we would see the possibility of coalition governments formed at some level. That’s never happened in the existence of our country.
Posted on 6/15/24 at 1:57 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
The UK is a democratic republic without a constitution, for instance.
The United Kingdom is a hereditary monarchy, which by definition is not a republic.
Iran is a republic. China is a republic. North Korea is a republic. The USSR was a republic, or at least a union of republics. The United Kingdom and the Netherlands, as constiutional monarchies, are not republics.
A republic in the most basic sense of the word is just a form of government without a hereditary monarch.
Is the USA a republic? Yes, of course. Is it also a representative democracy? Yes, absolutely. The two descriptions aren't mutually exclusive.
I wonder if folks who cringe at the idea of calling the USA a democracy would allow it to be called a "democratic republic"? That would seem to convey what they are saying their definition of republic entails. But it includes the scare word "democratic"...!
Posted on 6/15/24 at 2:03 pm to Bunsbert Montcroff
quote:
The United Kingdom is a hereditary monarchy, which by definition is not a republic.
If the monarchy still had the power to enact law that would work.
The House of Commons is the representative body, giving the republic characteristic and the MPs are elected, giving the democratic characteristic.
quote:
A republic in the most basic sense of the word is just a form of government without a hereditary monarch.
I've only seen this in the historical context and not the political/government context. Republic = representatives of the people make the law.
quote:
I wonder if folks who cringe at the idea of calling the USA a democracy would allow it to be called a "democratic republic"?
This common sense can't break through the barriers of echo chamber partisan brain rot.
Posted on 6/15/24 at 2:04 pm to Floyd Dawg
quote:
If we were a democracy in any form, then we would see the possibility of coalition governments formed at some level.
That's a national, Parliamentary system
quote:
That’s never happened in the existence of our country.
That's due to our single member district elections. That's why the UK they have a Parliament but typically 2 main parties (their MPs are also elected via SMDs)
The fact that we're discussing "elections" means that we're discussing democracies.
Posted on 6/15/24 at 2:08 pm to BFIV
quote:
Ever heard of the Pledge of Allegiance? You might want to read it.
Pledge of allegiance is socialist propaganda
Posted on 6/15/24 at 2:13 pm to SlowFlowPro
Thanks for once again proving why this board desperately needs an ignore feature.
Posted on 6/15/24 at 2:15 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
The fact that we're discussing "elections" means that we're discussing democracies.
This is historically inaccurate. The difference in republics and democracies is the concept of agency. Democracies historically are direct in nature. There is no agency between the populace and the policy. Republics, on the other hand, elect agents or representatives to serve their interests in a governmental body. There are elections in both of these systems. That doesn't mean that they're both democracies.
Posted on 6/15/24 at 2:21 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Nobody has said we are a direct democracy
Wasn't that what CNN was implying asking those questions to everyday Americans? BTW, was it not a Presidential rally? It was not a rally for the local dog catcher. It should surprise no one their focus at that time would be on the republican aspect of our system even if they happen to vote for the dog catcher in the same election.
You calling them NPC's and stupid only validates the boards opinion of you as being a sanctimonious and self-admiring contrarian that will argue over the semantics of democracy vs Democracy just to read your own posts and smell your own farts.
Posted on 6/15/24 at 2:29 pm to SCLibertarian
quote:
Republics, on the other hand, elect agents or representatives to serve their interests in a governmental body. There are elections in both of these systems. That doesn't mean that they're both democracies.
this is essentially saying that representative democracies are not democracies
Posted on 6/15/24 at 2:31 pm to SCLibertarian
quote:
Democracies historically are direct in nature.
No, they're not. Since Greece
quote:
Republics, on the other hand, elect agents or representatives
Again, elect = democracy
Posted on 6/15/24 at 2:33 pm to Bunsbert Montcroff
quote:
this is essentially saying that representative democracies are not democracies
Yes. It's insanity in its full NPC form
This is literally an idiotic talking point manufactured by echo chamber content creators to "own the libs" and their overly dramatic use of "muh democracy".
I do believe some realize the error but can't admit they were the NPC so they're just doubling down b/c the mob on here is on their side.
Posted on 6/15/24 at 2:34 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
We are a democracy and a republic.
The context is Trump/presidential elections.
In this respect, we're a republic. Though, those bitching about Trump do want presidential elections decided by democratic vote. That's probably the slight of hand CNN and other progressive mouthpieces are playing at. Especially considering states are now joining a pact to throw their electoral votes behind the popular vote winner once 270 electoral votes of states join.
Posted on 6/15/24 at 2:37 pm to Azkiger
quote:
The context is Trump/presidential elections.
No, its' not.
Even if it is, do you vote for electors to choose the President? If so, then that's an example of a republic and a democracy.
quote:
In this respect, we're a republic.
quote:
Trump/presidential elections.
...and a democracy
Elections = democracy
Posted on 6/15/24 at 2:38 pm to Azkiger
quote:
That's probably the slight of hand CNN and other progressive mouthpieces are playing at.
No slight of hand is necessary when dealing with idiots who embarrass themselves naturally.
Posted on 6/15/24 at 2:40 pm to Bunsbert Montcroff
quote:
The United Kingdom is a hereditary monarchy, which by definition is not a republic.
It's a parliamentary constitutional monarchy, technically, as the monarch has to abide by authority delineated to it by the constitution. And in the UK's case, parliament is sovereign over the monarch.
What's interesting to note is that we seem to ascribe lots of meaning to the deliberative assembly, or rather, how a deliberative assembly of government is formed. The distinction should be between elected and appointed, which is where the democratic distinction becomes more meaningful. You have had various assemblies of nobles throughout history who acted as deliberative bodies for the head of state, but rarely were they elected until modern times.
My question is that before the 17th amendment, how would you describe the US system of government?
Posted on 6/15/24 at 2:47 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
My question is that before the 17th amendment, how would you describe the US system of government?
The same as now: Constitutional, federal, democratic republic.
It was just less democratic due to Senators being appointed via elected representatives.
It was also a better federal system, as the states were represented and now it's basically all geared towards federal power/representation.
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