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Dave Smith and Douglas Murray on Joe Rogan's show
Posted on 4/10/25 at 1:51 pm
Posted on 4/10/25 at 1:51 pm
I've only listened to about a minute of this, but these are two really smart guys who I respect the hell out of, but they have very different views on Israel, among a few other areas of disagreement.
Pretty sure a lot of people in here like both of those fellas as well, so just putting out there for those interested. Should be a great one.
LINK
Pretty sure a lot of people in here like both of those fellas as well, so just putting out there for those interested. Should be a great one.
LINK
23
Posted on 4/10/25 at 1:57 pm to stuntman
I listened for about 45 min at the gym.
Mostly a bunch of bickering and nitpicking mostly from DM whose entire premise seems to be “trust the experts” rooted in an appeal to authority.
Hopefully it gets better.
Mostly a bunch of bickering and nitpicking mostly from DM whose entire premise seems to be “trust the experts” rooted in an appeal to authority.
Hopefully it gets better.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 1:59 pm to Robin Masters
Yeah, just a few min in and Murray's appeal to authority is off the charts right now. Sucks. Either something is correct or it isn't. He hasn't pointed out what Carrol, Cooper, or Dave got wrong yet.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 2:00 pm to stuntman
Im 1:20 into it. I’m a big fan of Murray and Smith. I probably agree with Murray more but I’m a bit disappointed in Murray being quite contentious to open the podcast. It led to a big portion of the podcast arguing over how things are discussed instead of just discussing the issues.
This post was edited on 4/10/25 at 2:02 pm
Posted on 4/10/25 at 2:03 pm to Robin Masters
5 minutes in and already want to punch Douglas Murray in the face.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 2:06 pm to stuntman
I like Douglas Murray a lot. He is extraordinarily smart and articulate. He's usually right. His innate intelligence and verbal skills also fill him with quite a bit of hubris and he comes off smugly arrogant. I get how that would be offputting.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 2:38 pm to stuntman
Smith is a clown that parrots the same foreign policy BS as Tucker.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 2:51 pm to 632627
I preferred dave the comedian to the political pundit
He was openly cheering for Russia when the war broke out - not just anti aid (which I am), but pro Russia
Useful idiot
He was openly cheering for Russia when the war broke out - not just anti aid (which I am), but pro Russia
Useful idiot
Posted on 4/10/25 at 2:53 pm to stuntman
quote:
Pretty sure a lot of people in here like both of those fellas as well, so just putting out there for those interested. Should be a great one.
came to post this.
i like both but i tend to disagree with Murray entirely on Israel and mostly on Ukraine.
I disagree with Smith partially on Israel/Palestine but agree with him mostly on Ukraine.
One thing that happened really early and then throughout on was Dave Smith was directly quoting people and Murray would say "that's an appeal to authority." No dumbass, that's quoting somebody directly. None of the people he's quoting are people I want you to listen to because I like them and they make my position feel stronger." he then says straw man, fallacy, etc. all debate terms to not argue evidence.
quoting the CIA director saying "hey all my contacts in Russia said that Ukraine in NATO is the brightest of red lines" isn't asking you to take my side because a smart person said it, it's because it's on record that he said it.
then murray waves away anything that disproves his worldview. "sure there's a recording of Bibi saying that he was fine with Qatar funding Hamas because he wanted them to stay in power, but that's just one recording." it's just one and doesn't count.
Murray is basically using the entire time to throw out debate words and wave away any counterfactuals.
I don't think Dave Smith is a great intellectual or debater, but Murray just comes off trying to sound like the smartest person in the room and ignores anything that proves him wrong while Smith concedes numerous points to move the conversation along.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 2:55 pm to stuntman
Douglas Murray’s new book about Israel and hamas just came out
Started the audiobook this morning
Started the audiobook this morning
Posted on 4/10/25 at 2:59 pm to 3nOut
not to reply to my own post, but I was thinking about this.it's obvious that Murray buys into the fact that we have world shaping myths that can't be challenged.
Churchhill is one of the heroes of the 20th century. He's a brave individual and should be remembered as the one that refused to bow to Hitler when the rest of Europe fell.
But also, Churchill did a bunch of things leading up to the culmination of WWII that probably made it way worse than it had to be.
I'm not saying I would have done better. I probably wouldn't have.
None of us can play D1 basketball, but there are entire threads on MSB or articles talking about how Houston screwed up their last possession on Monday night and what could have been done better.
Murray is pretending like Houston/Churchill should be viewed as infallible
Churchhill is one of the heroes of the 20th century. He's a brave individual and should be remembered as the one that refused to bow to Hitler when the rest of Europe fell.
But also, Churchill did a bunch of things leading up to the culmination of WWII that probably made it way worse than it had to be.
I'm not saying I would have done better. I probably wouldn't have.
None of us can play D1 basketball, but there are entire threads on MSB or articles talking about how Houston screwed up their last possession on Monday night and what could have been done better.
Murray is pretending like Houston/Churchill should be viewed as infallible
Posted on 4/10/25 at 3:35 pm to 3nOut
quote:
Murray is pretending like Houston/Churchill should be viewed as infallible
And Daryl Cooper said that Churchill was the chief villain of WW2, which is what Murray took offense to.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 3:45 pm to 632627
And Rogan and Dave let him know that when Cooper said that about Churchill, he was joking around.
Murray is acting like a leftist here and listening to things totally out of context. He even admitted he didn't listen to whole podcasts of Cooper.
Murray is acting like a leftist here and listening to things totally out of context. He even admitted he didn't listen to whole podcasts of Cooper.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 3:52 pm to stuntman
quote:
when Cooper said that about Churchill, he was joking around.
I'm confused how Cooper was joking around when he made that statement on Tucker's podcast. Even VDH rebuked most of what Cooper said about Hitler, Churchill and WW2.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 4:52 pm to 632627
Posted on 4/10/25 at 5:15 pm to 632627
quote:
when Cooper said that about Churchill, he was joking around.
I'm confused how Cooper was joking around when he made that statement on Tucker's podcast. Even VDH rebuked most of what Cooper said about Hitler, Churchill and WW2.
he said, i say it to give a hard time to my friend and his English wife who loves Churchill as a hyperbole to get under their skin.
you're Murraying. unable to hold two contradictory thoughts in your head and purposely taking things out of context.
This post was edited on 4/10/25 at 5:18 pm
Posted on 4/10/25 at 5:15 pm to stuntman
I feel like Dave Smith has done like 4 Rogan eps in the last 6 months.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 5:16 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
I feel like Dave Smith has done like 4 Rogan eps in the last 6 months.
he did a normally scheduled appearance, got called in after the election, did a regularly scheduled appearance and then got called in for a debate.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 5:18 pm to stuntman
Team Murray. Dude is smarter than Smith and Rogan put together.
I like Smith, but he's still a little too Libertarian whacko for me... And he's one of those "The Jews Did this" types, who wants to obsessively blame Israel for everything that's wrong in the world, and cry for Palestine.
Second, he--and Rogan--pissed me off on that episode talking about Derek Chauvin and the George Floyd death and riots. They both fully labeled Chauvin a murderer... and at the same time, totally contradicted themselves multiple times in that discussion. The Fall of Minneapolis documentary, available to view for free on YouTube, blows the story that Chauvin is a murderer out of the water. Chauvin shouldn't be in prison at all.
I like Smith, but he's still a little too Libertarian whacko for me... And he's one of those "The Jews Did this" types, who wants to obsessively blame Israel for everything that's wrong in the world, and cry for Palestine.
Second, he--and Rogan--pissed me off on that episode talking about Derek Chauvin and the George Floyd death and riots. They both fully labeled Chauvin a murderer... and at the same time, totally contradicted themselves multiple times in that discussion. The Fall of Minneapolis documentary, available to view for free on YouTube, blows the story that Chauvin is a murderer out of the water. Chauvin shouldn't be in prison at all.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 5:23 pm to BTROleMisser
quote:
I like Smith, but he's still a little too Libertarian whacko for me... And he's one of those "The Jews Did this" types, who wants to obsessively blame Israel for everything that's wrong in the world, and cry for Palestine.
A)smith is a jew
B) I've never heard him once blame Jews for anything ever. His ire is solely at the Country of Israel and their actions. I don't even agree with him entirely for his disdain for Israel, but I've never heard him attack Jews.
quote:
Second, he--and Rogan--pissed me off on that episode talking about Derek Chauvin and the George Floyd death and riots. They both fully labeled Chauvin a murderer... and at the same time, totally contradicted themselves multiple times in that discussion. The Fall of Minneapolis documentary, available to view for free on YouTube, blows the story that Chauvin is a murderer out of the water. Chauvin shouldn't be in prison at all.
C)I am the reddest of reds, and while I don't think Chauvin solely murdered Floyd, but there's no excuse for him to be able to be videoed on his neck for that long. He didn't murder him but he absolutely committed unnecessary brutality. Sorry. Not Sorry.
This post was edited on 4/10/25 at 5:25 pm
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