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Started By
Message
Do Governments Commit Murder?
Posted on 4/19/25 at 9:06 am
Posted on 4/19/25 at 9:06 am
Obviously, individuals are charged and convicted of murder every day.
If a group of people becomes a "government", and they kill people, is that murder also? Or is it exempt because of some special reason?
What reasons would they be exempt from being murderers?
And if they are murderers, who is accountable? The leader, the people who chose the leader, or the people who pulled the trigger?
I know a few people on this board have thought about this and will help me understand the differences involved.
If a group of people becomes a "government", and they kill people, is that murder also? Or is it exempt because of some special reason?
What reasons would they be exempt from being murderers?
And if they are murderers, who is accountable? The leader, the people who chose the leader, or the people who pulled the trigger?
I know a few people on this board have thought about this and will help me understand the differences involved.
18
Posted on 4/19/25 at 9:08 am to Grassy1
Yes, they do.
Posted on 4/19/25 at 9:10 am to Grassy1
quote:
Or is it exempt because of some special reason?
I don't have a simple answer for anything except this excerpt -- Recognition of legitimacy by other existing governments is usually important. That also invites a whole lot of other "what-if's" however.
Posted on 4/19/25 at 9:10 am to Grassy1
Why do you suppose Faucci accepted a pardon?
Posted on 4/19/25 at 9:11 am to Rebel
quote:
Why do you suppose Faucci accepted a pardon?
Probably the republicans calling him a criminal for 5years and coming into power.
Posted on 4/19/25 at 9:11 am to Grassy1
quote:
Do Governments Commit Murder?
Yes, genocide is murder.
Lynch mobs also commit murder.
quote:
And if they are murderers, who is accountable?
Leaders and 'trigger pullers'. Check out the Nuremberg trials.
Posted on 4/19/25 at 9:13 am to SammyTiger
quote:
SammyTiger
Are you trying to be shittiest poster on both PT and The Rant?
Posted on 4/19/25 at 9:15 am to Grassy1
According to God’s law, yes.
This is why objective morality is important. It gives substance to what we already know to be true.
King David had the authority to send Uriah to the front lines, but he did it in order to kill him. That was murder according to the 6th commandment.
This is why objective morality is important. It gives substance to what we already know to be true.
King David had the authority to send Uriah to the front lines, but he did it in order to kill him. That was murder according to the 6th commandment.
Posted on 4/19/25 at 9:15 am to Rebel
quote:
Are you trying to be shittiest poster on both PT
I get why you mouth breathers would hate me in PT talk.
but i’m a pretty good rant poster
Posted on 4/19/25 at 9:16 am to Grassy1
There are two simultaneous issues have to wrestle with here:
1. Most of us define the difference between murder and execution (non-murder) as it was done because of socially accepted convention/compact. Usually laws are that compact. Justice is the word applied. But there are other forms of that.
2. Governments usually do it in the name of "the people". In the US it is always "the people of the state of _________" or such. Which is a reference to #1. So it's not the government committing the execution (or murder). It is the people of that jurisdiction.
Caveat: are those laws, traditions, etc. that form that compact justice? That's a whole other thing.
In some cases such as communism it is done in the name of the party, not the people as a whole, because if you're not with the party you are not socially acceptable and thus there is no compact/justice that applies to you. Then you get to legal murder.
1. Most of us define the difference between murder and execution (non-murder) as it was done because of socially accepted convention/compact. Usually laws are that compact. Justice is the word applied. But there are other forms of that.
2. Governments usually do it in the name of "the people". In the US it is always "the people of the state of _________" or such. Which is a reference to #1. So it's not the government committing the execution (or murder). It is the people of that jurisdiction.
Caveat: are those laws, traditions, etc. that form that compact justice? That's a whole other thing.
In some cases such as communism it is done in the name of the party, not the people as a whole, because if you're not with the party you are not socially acceptable and thus there is no compact/justice that applies to you. Then you get to legal murder.
Posted on 4/19/25 at 9:18 am to Grassy1
quote:
Do Governments Commit Murder?
We’re all accountable for our own actions… it depends on how much latitude you think government should have to act in the greater good
Some of you cheer the death penalty knowing that we’ve executed innocent men in the past
Posted on 4/19/25 at 9:18 am to Grassy1
quote:
Do Governments Commit Murder?
Posted on 4/19/25 at 9:24 am to Grassy1
Posted on 4/19/25 at 9:25 am to Grassy1
Certainly. It’s called a murderous regime. Think Nazi Germany, Japan, Pol Pot, Chairman Mao, and Stalin. Some were tried for war crimes, some never will. They will face a higher court.
Posted on 4/19/25 at 9:50 am to Lynxrufus2012
quote:
Certainly. It’s called a murderous regime. Think Nazi Germany, Japan, Pol Pot, Chairman Mao, and Stalin. Some were tried for war crimes, some never will. They will face a higher court.
Good point. Do you think we have any murderous regimes in power now?
Posted on 4/19/25 at 9:52 am to Grassy1
quote:
Do Governments Commit Murder?
Posted on 4/19/25 at 9:53 am to I20goon
I appreciate your response and you make some excellent points. Capital punishment is certainly an issue that deserves a lot thoughtfulness, as it’s not reversible.
How about when the government chooses to kill large numbers of people at a time? Not really taking into consideration each individual involved.
How about when the government chooses to kill large numbers of people at a time? Not really taking into consideration each individual involved.
Posted on 4/19/25 at 9:54 am to chalmetteowl
quote:You can support the concept without supporting its abuse or even its weaknesses. Many people support Trump even though he isn’t perfect. Many support the existence of government, though it is filled with weak and immoral governors.
Some of you cheer the death penalty knowing that we’ve executed innocent men in the past
Christians know that God will provide justice in a perfect way even if man’s justice is imperfect.
Posted on 4/19/25 at 9:55 am to Grassy1
Depends on who is describing the events and laws applied.
So yes and no.
CiA kills a "baddy" in another country. No law in our country says it's murder but in country X they deem it a murder.
So yes and no.
CiA kills a "baddy" in another country. No law in our country says it's murder but in country X they deem it a murder.
Posted on 4/19/25 at 10:01 am to SammyTiger
quote:
I get why you mouth breathers would hate me in PT talk.
Most of the country would hate you.
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