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Withholding Order for Garcia applied to GUATEMALA not EL SALVADOR

Posted on 4/23/25 at 11:25 pm
Posted by IvoryBillMatt
Member since Mar 2020
4580 posts
Posted on 4/23/25 at 11:25 pm
Whenever possible, I read court filings rather than reports. I could never find the actual withholding order in the Abrego Garcia case. Through this YouTube video, I finally found it.

Turns out the actual withholding order applied to GUATEMALA....NOT to El Salvador!

Despite DOJ's filings, there was NEVER a legal impediment to removal to El Salvador. The case is already over because Abrego Garcia is beyond the jurisdiction of US Courts...but this kills any objections to KAG's deportation to El Salvador.



This post was edited on 4/23/25 at 11:29 pm
Posted by Riverside
Member since Jul 2022
5040 posts
Posted on 4/23/25 at 11:45 pm to
You have doggedly pursued this issue. If this is true, it certainly explains why Bondi was so upset with that original DOJ attorney conceding there was an error.
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
119622 posts
Posted on 4/24/25 at 12:00 am to
Post the paragraph right above the conclusion.

The one that says El Salvador.
Posted by mmcgrath
Indianapolis
Member since Feb 2010
36564 posts
Posted on 4/24/25 at 12:18 am to
Yeah, the quote looks like it is ok to deport him to Guatemala. Doesn't say anything about El Salvador.
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
119622 posts
Posted on 4/24/25 at 12:24 am to
No. You’re reading it wrong.
Posted by Kattail
Member since Aug 2020
3925 posts
Posted on 4/24/25 at 4:00 am to
Why doesn’t Bondi come out and state this?
Posted by IvoryBillMatt
Member since Mar 2020
4580 posts
Posted on 4/24/25 at 5:01 am to
quote:

Why doesn’t Bondi come out and state this?


That's the only thing that gives me pause. Once the initial DOJ attorney was removed, why hasn't DOJ amended its pleadings?

I suppose one could argue that the Immigration Judge MEANT to write "El Salvador," but that should have been an argument for Abrego Garcia’s lawyers...and it doesn't fit the facts as alleged. Abrego Garcia’s family had moved to Guatemala from El Salvador in an attempt to flee persecution
Posted by LaMigra
Member since Nov 2022
2362 posts
Posted on 4/24/25 at 5:09 am to
Was he here illegally? If so adios fricker!!
Posted by IvoryBillMatt
Member since Mar 2020
4580 posts
Posted on 4/24/25 at 5:21 am to
The media is SO bad. ALL this discussion about the Withholding Order without producing that Order for the public to read.

I only found it thanks to the Tennessee Star, the same outlet that broke the details of the human trafficking allegations. However, much you hate Mainstream Media, it's not enough.

Here is the entire document:
LINK



Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
130706 posts
Posted on 4/24/25 at 5:32 am to
quote:





Posted by lake chuck fan
westlake
Member since Aug 2011
17750 posts
Posted on 4/24/25 at 5:40 am to
I'm definitely no lawyer, but it appears that OP is correct. Seems this should have been a talking point for the DOJ in the beginning. Why haven't they revealed this?
Posted by dgnx6
Member since Feb 2006
78650 posts
Posted on 4/24/25 at 5:47 am to
quote:

Yeah, the quote looks like it is ok to deport him to Guatemala. Doesn't say anything about El Salvador.



It doesn’t say that at all.

Good find Ivory. This is why you don’t go full on trusting the medias initial reporting.


This is part of the law where I don’t think it mattered sending him to El Salvador anyway.


quote:

(3) Restriction on removal to a country where alien's life or freedom would be threatened

(A) In general Notwithstanding paragraphs (1) and (2), the Attorney General may not remove an alien to a country if the Attorney General decides that the alien's life or freedom would be threatened in that country because of the alien's race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion.

(B) Exception

Subparagraph (A) does not apply to an alien deportable under section 1227(a)(4)(D) of this title or if the Attorney General decides that-

(i) the alien ordered, incited, assisted, or otherwise participated in the persecution of an individual because of the individual's race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion;

(ii) the alien, having been convicted by a final judgment of a particularly serious crime is a danger to the community of the United States;

(iii) there are serious reasons to believe that the alien committed a serious nonpolitical crime outside the United States before the alien arrived in the United States; or

(iv) there are reasonable grounds to believe that the alien is a danger to the security of the United States.





This post was edited on 4/24/25 at 6:03 am
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
130706 posts
Posted on 4/24/25 at 5:59 am to
quote:

he quote looks like it is ok to deport him to Guatemala. Doesn't say anything about El Salvador.

Here is the finding:
quote:

Here, the Respondent has not shown that it is "more likely than not" that he would be tortured if he were to be removed to El Salvador.

Conclusion

The Respondent's application for asylum is time-barred without exception. However' he has established past persecution based on a protected ground, and the presumption of a well- founded fear of future persecution. DHS has not shown there are changed circumstances in Guatemala that would result in the Respondent's life not being threatened, or that internal relocation is possible and reasonable under the circumstances. Therefore, the Respondent's application for withholding under the Act is granted. Finally, his CAT claim fails because he has not shown that he would suffer torture.
• Withholding pertains to Guatemala only. Not El Salvador.

• The double negative in the Guatemala withholding is confusing at first glance.

• His "CAT Claim" (Convention Against Torture) refers to El Salvador.
This post was edited on 4/24/25 at 6:03 am
Posted by IvoryBillMatt
Member since Mar 2020
4580 posts
Posted on 4/24/25 at 6:06 am to
quote:

Post the paragraph right above the conclusion.

The one that says El Salvador.


Why are you shilling for a MS-13 terrorist by pointing out that the judge also mentioned El Salvador in addition to Guatemala? Why do you hate America and Trump so much? I think your TDS has gotten the better of you.

The reference was to a different legal proposition: an analysis under the Convention Against Torture of whether or not Abrego Garcia would be tortured.

Admittedly, the document was sloppy in its analysis, but the portion on which country Abrego Garcia could not be removed to is clear: it was Guatemala.

I'm not going to do the further heavy lifting of researching whether or not a withholding order can apply only to one country. You and others on the Board HATE actual legal analysis and would prefer to label those who bother to engage in it as "shilling for terrorists" or "wanting to bring Abrego Garcia back" despite the truth of what I have been doing.

My semi-educated guess is that an illegal alien subject to deportation only gets ONE country to which they cannot be deported through a withholding order. If that's true, that country was GUATEMALA, not El Salvador in Abrego Garcia's case.

Against my better judgment, here's my last courtesy to you. Here's the paragraph before the conclusion that you requested:




This post was edited on 4/24/25 at 6:17 am
Posted by IvoryBillMatt
Member since Mar 2020
4580 posts
Posted on 4/24/25 at 6:11 am to
quote:

Good find Ivory. This is why you don’t go full on trusting the medias initial reporting.



Thanks dgnx6. I never trust the media's reporting AT ANY STAGE. Thanks to you for actually looking up, reading, and posting the relevant statutes.

I just couldn't find the order itself. Again, thanks to a smaller outlet such as the Tennessee Star that actually respects its readership.
Posted by IvoryBillMatt
Member since Mar 2020
4580 posts
Posted on 4/24/25 at 6:15 am to
Thanks NC_Tigah. Spotless analysis.

I wish I had seen your excellent summary, before I took 10 minutes to lash out at 808Bass in explaining the portion about CAT.
Posted by cajunandy
New Orleans
Member since Nov 2015
796 posts
Posted on 4/24/25 at 6:18 am to
quote:

My guess is that an illegal alien subject to deportation only gets ONE country to which they cannot be deported through a withholding order. If that's true, that country was GUATEMALA, not El Salvador in Abrego Garcia's case.


I agree that is what is said in the conclusion of facts. The problem is that the order simply says
"II the Respondent's application of removal pursuant to INA241(b)(3)is Granted."
The order seems to be ambiguous. I would have preferred the Judge included the country that he cannot be removed to in the order.
Posted by IvoryBillMatt
Member since Mar 2020
4580 posts
Posted on 4/24/25 at 6:24 am to
quote:

I'm definitely no lawyer, but it appears that OP is correct. Seems this should have been a talking point for the DOJ in the beginning. Why haven't they revealed this?


I agree. It's a head scratcher. I understand the accusation that the initial DOJ attorney sabotaged the case...but why hasn't a DOJ lawyer...actually acting FOR the United States government...amended the pleadings to highlight what the Immigration Judge's Order actually said?
Posted by IvoryBillMatt
Member since Mar 2020
4580 posts
Posted on 4/24/25 at 6:32 am to
quote:

The order seems to be ambiguous. I would have preferred the Judge included the country that he cannot be removed to in the order.


No doubt. I haven't seen the entire record of the immigration proceedings. I'm not sure it's available for public viewing.

If you get the time and are interested, the YouTube video is worth listening to in order to understand the anomalies of this case:

Posted by Houag80
Member since Jul 2019
14475 posts
Posted on 4/24/25 at 6:48 am to
I know you have heard this before...

You are mind numbingly stupid!
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