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Message
How much difference can one player make?
Posted on 6/30/24 at 6:19 pm
Posted on 6/30/24 at 6:19 pm
I’ll start by saying I’m really a casual soccer fan. I love international soccer, and I started pulling for Arsenal last year. I enjoy it, but it’s not a must have. I say all this to say I’m being honest with this question as I truly don’t know.
You put peak Jordan or LeBron on virtually any team and he drags them to the finals if not a championship. At the same time, the best player of his generation, Mike Trout, seldom makes the playoffs. Depending on the sport, one player can mean the world or a whole lot less.
What is it in soccer. Let’s say you took peak Messi, Ronaldo, or whatever all time great player on this USMNT team, what would that do for the team. They are better, obviously, but how much? Could they legitimately compete for World Cups as a favorite or does one player not move the needle that much? I’ve been wondering this while watching the Euros and Copa America and was hoping someone may have some insight.
You put peak Jordan or LeBron on virtually any team and he drags them to the finals if not a championship. At the same time, the best player of his generation, Mike Trout, seldom makes the playoffs. Depending on the sport, one player can mean the world or a whole lot less.
What is it in soccer. Let’s say you took peak Messi, Ronaldo, or whatever all time great player on this USMNT team, what would that do for the team. They are better, obviously, but how much? Could they legitimately compete for World Cups as a favorite or does one player not move the needle that much? I’ve been wondering this while watching the Euros and Copa America and was hoping someone may have some insight.
11
Posted on 6/30/24 at 6:24 pm to LSU2ALA
quote:
I started pulling for Arsenal last year.
Of course you did. American Newbies join the Arsenal wagon early and often.
As for your question, it can go either way. You do need to have a decent supporting cast like a good forward, midfielder, CB, and goalie. But one thing is for sure, Georgia is not making the Euros without Kvara.
This post was edited on 6/30/24 at 6:27 pm
Posted on 6/30/24 at 6:30 pm to LSU2ALA
quote:
and I started pulling for Arsenal last year.
Wow
Posted on 6/30/24 at 6:44 pm to LSU2ALA
Star players can get lost in the team and might detract from it but always better to have than not. Look to the midfield for success.
Posted on 6/30/24 at 7:12 pm to LSU2ALA
quote:
What is it in soccer.
Kind of like a QB in football, not like a star in basketball.
Posted on 6/30/24 at 7:38 pm to LSU2ALA
Messi got Miami going from worst to first.
Posted on 6/30/24 at 7:47 pm to LSU2ALA
quote:
How much difference can one player make?
England are loaded with attacking talent.
Yet coach is holding them back.
Same with France.
Maradona. It could be argued dragged Argentina to claiming a World Cup
I think it depends on the team and the competition.
In league play. Less impact over a season.
In a tournament. Can have more of an impact.
This post was edited on 6/30/24 at 7:49 pm
Posted on 6/30/24 at 7:50 pm to LSU2ALA
I don’t think any one soccer player can have the same level of effect on a team as a generational level basketball player.
Use Neymar as the example. He is a generational talent that has free rein to play anywhere on the field.
His creativity, link up play, passing, vision, dribbling and two footed ness allow him to outclass pretty much everyone on the pitch.
There was a very noticeable drop in Brasil’s creativity and level of play in the last World Cup once he went down with an ankle injury.
However, I still don’t think he has half the effect of a prime Jordan or LeBron on his team. Maybe because basketball only has 5 players on the court and the scoring system is so different.
Use Neymar as the example. He is a generational talent that has free rein to play anywhere on the field.
His creativity, link up play, passing, vision, dribbling and two footed ness allow him to outclass pretty much everyone on the pitch.
There was a very noticeable drop in Brasil’s creativity and level of play in the last World Cup once he went down with an ankle injury.
However, I still don’t think he has half the effect of a prime Jordan or LeBron on his team. Maybe because basketball only has 5 players on the court and the scoring system is so different.
This post was edited on 6/30/24 at 7:52 pm
Posted on 6/30/24 at 8:36 pm to Golgi Apparatus
quote:
Maybe because basketball only has 5 players on the court and the scoring system is so different.
A player can easily possess the ball in scoring position on every possession in basketball. No other team sport is like that.
Posted on 6/30/24 at 9:10 pm to Alyosha
quote:
Of course you did. American Newbies join the Arsenal wagon early and often.
That was my 10 year old son’s choice. We decided to pick a team together and he thought the name was cool.
Posted on 6/30/24 at 9:13 pm to Ancient Astronaut
quote:
Wow
I’m sorry I didn’t pass whatever purity test you have. I honestly don’t care if you approve or not. I will say though if you want the sport to grow in the US you should welcome any type of fandom.
Posted on 6/30/24 at 9:57 pm to LSU2ALA
Watch Leeds second half of last season with Bamford vs without
Posted on 6/30/24 at 10:54 pm to LSU2ALA
With club play the world class players are pretty much always surrounded by fellow world class players. You can’t really isolate their impact
With international play performance is a crapshoot. You’re dealing with teams that never play together trying to do the best they can under constraints and players are at the mercy of what their manager is trying to do
Messi won his 2 major international tournaments far from his prime as Argentina got younger. Ronaldo won his via the easiest path in Euros history and with a team that played better than its individual parts. If he’d had this current team in his prime they’d have come close to a Cup
Ultimately even if you’re the GOAT you’re not winning anything of note without a good cohesive supporting cast
With international play performance is a crapshoot. You’re dealing with teams that never play together trying to do the best they can under constraints and players are at the mercy of what their manager is trying to do
Messi won his 2 major international tournaments far from his prime as Argentina got younger. Ronaldo won his via the easiest path in Euros history and with a team that played better than its individual parts. If he’d had this current team in his prime they’d have come close to a Cup
Ultimately even if you’re the GOAT you’re not winning anything of note without a good cohesive supporting cast
This post was edited on 6/30/24 at 11:05 pm
Posted on 7/1/24 at 4:06 am to RemouladeSawce
Erling Halaand was the best player in the world last year and couldnt even get Norway to an expanded Euros where teams like Georgia, Albania, Slovenia, and Scotland got in.
Posted on 7/1/24 at 7:02 am to LSU2ALA
quote:
I’m sorry I didn’t pass whatever purity test you have. I honestly don’t care if you approve or not. I will say though if you want the sport to grow in the US you should welcome any type of fandom.
It’s just this board that loves to be gatekeeper for the sport, talking and watching with people in-person about soccer has been a great experience. Try to find an Arsenal bar that opens early to watch the game and guarantee you’ll have a blast.
To answer your question, it really depends on the player. Messi made Miami credible overnight whereas Ronaldo didn’t have nearly the same effect in the Saudi league.
Posted on 7/1/24 at 7:26 am to LSU2ALA
I’m just messing with you.
Posted on 7/1/24 at 5:11 pm to LSU2ALA
You need to raise him better, and you can overrule him.
Posted on 7/1/24 at 7:33 pm to LSU2ALA
quote:
I started pulling for Arsenal last year.
Declan Rice, is that you?
Posted on 7/1/24 at 9:30 pm to LSU2ALA
Oops wrong thread
This post was edited on 7/1/24 at 9:31 pm
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