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re: Jake Fischer: An unofficial poll of executives have BI above Trae Young
Posted on 5/16/24 at 8:02 am to Townedrunkard
Posted on 5/16/24 at 8:02 am to Townedrunkard
I want bogdanovic for when the pels trade cj.
0
Posted on 5/16/24 at 8:02 am to TigerinATL
quote:
We also need to remember that the point of Point Zion isn't to let Zion run the offense, it's to get Zion the ball in space on the move and maximize the options he has. If Trae is moving the defense Zion can score on cuts since Trae is a pretty good passer.
Y'all are doing yourselves dirty contorting logic like this. The point of Point Zion is for ZION to run the POINT. He can't do that next to one of the most prolific dribblers and shot-clock drainers in the NBA.
Trae has shown far less willingness to do what the team asks than BI has. Everything people hate about BI, Trae is worse. The only thing you'll get is more ill-advised 3s.
Posted on 5/16/24 at 8:28 am to Jester
Young is the face and foundation of the Hawks. He's carried the team for 5 years. Moving him will be a seismic event in the city. His name and likeness is everywhere, i see it almost everyday. Definitely a polarizing figure, but he sells tickets and he's had huge moments in big games. I get that he is has struggled recently, but I don't think his value has submarined that much. Other than him being on a super max, which has to scare some teams off. What is Ingrams value after he signs a 5 year max?
Posted on 5/16/24 at 8:35 am to Jester
I think most people see point Zion as a great failsafe for quick buckets, but question its sustained success due to personnel.
Zion can operate within another offensive system, but can anyone else orchestrate a point Zion system?
Zion can operate within another offensive system, but can anyone else orchestrate a point Zion system?
Posted on 5/16/24 at 8:38 am to Socrates Johnson
Not jealous of Griffin's position.. Have to build a team that can contend, while also being 50/50 on Zion's availability all year
Posted on 5/16/24 at 8:43 am to Jester
quote:
Y'all are doing yourselves dirty contorting logic like this. The point of Point Zion is for ZION to run the POINT. He can't do that next to one of the most prolific dribblers and shot-clock drainers in the NBA.
Having point Zion to close out games is unrealistic. I think it would have been magnified in the playoffs. Go look at all the 4th quarter losses. Bi wasn’t capable of closing out games in the 4th.
This post was edited on 5/16/24 at 8:46 am
Posted on 5/16/24 at 8:45 am to Townedrunkard
quote:
Having point Zion to close out games is unrealistic. Go look at all the 4th quarter losses. Bi wasn’t capable of closing out games in the 4th.
It's not about point Zion not working. It does work. It's what you can do when that's taken away and the wall is built. You have to be multiple at the end of games and our wonderful coaching was inept as all frick with that.
Posted on 5/16/24 at 8:49 am to Jester
quote:
The point of Point Zion is for ZION to run the POINT
I fully admit I don’t watch enough Trae to know how good of a fit he would be, but I disagree completely with this assertion that Zion needs to run the offense. Zion just needs the ball in space heading down hill, he doesn’t have to be the QB, he can be the elusive RB lined up in the slot to attack mismatches in space.
It really is a shame BI was too soft for Stan, because when Stan finally focused on the offense he put some interesting actions in. I loved the one where the PG attacked the paint from one side and Zion was in the dunker’s spot on the opposite side and would curl into the lane to get the ball about 8 feet from the basket with a head of steam and the defense out of position. It boggles my mind how Willie hasn’t incorporated more actions like that.
Posted on 5/16/24 at 9:31 am to TigerinATL
I have zero concern about the offensive fit, Murray averaged 21/5/5 in games that Trae played this season, so it's not like he's so ball dominant that another player can't still put up numbers with him on the court. But, if we trade for Trae we need to pair him with an elite rim protector and we need to keep Herb.
I have zero idea if it's realistic to keep Herb while adding Trae and an elite rim protector (someone like JA, Claxton, IH, etc...), but that is the only route that I think makes sense if you're trading for Trae.
Rim protector
Zion
Hopefully Trey
Herb
Trae
Is a very good starting 5 that should still be good on defense and has a ton of offensive potential.
I have zero idea if it's realistic to keep Herb while adding Trae and an elite rim protector (someone like JA, Claxton, IH, etc...), but that is the only route that I think makes sense if you're trading for Trae.
Rim protector
Zion
Hopefully Trey
Herb
Trae
Is a very good starting 5 that should still be good on defense and has a ton of offensive potential.
Posted on 5/16/24 at 11:38 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
Rim protector
Zion
Hopefully Trey
Herb
Trae
Is a very good starting 5 that should still be good on defense and has a ton of offensive potential.
I see 2 plus defenders in that group of one of them is your rim protector.
Posted on 5/16/24 at 11:39 am to Socrates Johnson
quote:
Zion can operate within another offensive system
Can he? I haven't seen it yet, at least not consistently.
Posted on 5/16/24 at 11:40 am to TigerinATL
quote:
Zion just needs the ball in space heading down hill, he doesn’t have to be the QB, he can be the elusive RB lined up in the slot to attack mismatches in space.
If that's what we do with a supposedly transcendental star, we're doomed to mediocrity. You're talking about a transcendental overall #1 pick becoming little more than a cutter off the ball.
This post was edited on 5/16/24 at 11:43 am
Posted on 5/16/24 at 11:51 am to Jester
quote:
I see 2 plus defenders in that group of one of them is your rim protector.
Jonas
Zion
BI
Herb
CJ
Was the starting lineup for a team that finished 6th in defense. Swapping Jonas for a rim protector, BI for Trey, and CJ for Trae shouldn't be worse than that.
Posted on 5/16/24 at 11:56 am to Jester
quote:
If that's what we do with a supposedly transcendental star, we're doomed to mediocrity. You're talking about a transcendental overall #1 pick becoming little more than a cutter off the ball.
He's a supposedly transcendental star that has proven fragile enough that you may not want to play him full time as the PG, both for fatigue/injury reasons and so you have redundancy built into the roster. We also have seen him fail as a PG in crunch time. Every time he's gotten in good enough shape that we think it might be different in crunch time, he's gotten injured, so we still don't know how transcendental can be.
There are enough questions about Trae, Garland and everyone else that the "safe" target in Murray is still at the top of my list. But trading BI and not getting a creator back just seems like the worst plan they could possibly come up with. Especially when we're arguing over how much Point Zion we should have not because we are trying to find the true answer to that question, but because you afraid of what furniture you might break if they do end up trading for Trae
Posted on 5/16/24 at 2:19 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:
BI for Trey, and CJ for Trae shouldn't be worse than that.
But it absolutely is. Trae makes CJ look like Herb, and Trey is at best a wash with BI.
Posted on 5/16/24 at 2:36 pm to Chalkywhite84
quote:
Griffin didn't make fisher go talk
Posted on 5/16/24 at 2:44 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
There are enough questions about Trae, Garland and everyone else that the "safe" target in Murray is still at the top of my list. But trading BI and not getting a creator back just seems like the worst plan they could possibly come up with. Especially when we're arguing over how much Point Zion we should have not because we are trying to find the true answer to that question, but because you afraid of what furniture you might break if they do end up trading for Trae
What are the questions about trae? His defense?
Are you saying Murray doesn't have any questions?
I like Murray as a player but I feel like you should be getting more back for Ingram. Some team views Ingram as that guy. I think the offers are going to be much better than most here.
I honestly didn't get to see Murray much this year but looking at his numbers he had a great yr. I think the pels make out better if they can get any combination of Trae and oo or Murray and oo. I also want bogdanovic.
This post was edited on 5/16/24 at 2:47 pm
Posted on 5/16/24 at 3:11 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
But trading BI and not getting a creator back just seems like the worst plan they could possibly come up with.
I was the canary in that coalmine. I just don't think Trae is the right type of creator.
Trae makes sense to discuss because talent-wise, he's up there with BI. He's just not a winning player.
This post was edited on 5/16/24 at 3:15 pm
Posted on 5/16/24 at 3:13 pm to Chalkywhite84
quote:
What are the questions about trae?
I don't have questions, I have answers:
1. He is arguably the worst defender in the NBA
2. He is arguably the worst ball-stopper
3. He is a notorious stat-chaser
4. His teammates don't like him
Posted on 5/16/24 at 3:20 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
He's just not a winning player.
Even though technically hes won before?
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