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Willie Green/Season thoughts
Posted on 4/30/24 at 8:35 am
Posted on 4/30/24 at 8:35 am
3rd season with the Pelicans
1st season: 36-46, won play-in for 8 seed, lost 2-4 to Suns. Zion missed the entire season.
2nd season: 42-40, missed playoffs. Zion played 29 games.
3rd season: 49-33, won play-in for 8 seed, lost 0-4 against OKC. Zion played 70 games.
I’m no Willie apologist and I get he has made some bone-headed moves at times. But at the same time he has experienced some success here, increasing his win total each year.
A lot of the shortcomings of this team are with personnel and execution.Willie can’t make BI play physical basketball against Dort. Willie can’t control Trey and CJ shooting like absolute dog shite for the series. Willie made adjustments to get JV more looks, but if you’re having to rely on JV to carry this team offensively against OKC you’re gong to lose.
Willie is going to get another crack at it next year like it or not and it’s probably the right call. The real question is can Griff get a workable roster that fits Willie’s/Borrego’s vision for this team.
The center position doesn’t really need upgraded because JV is damn good in his role, we just need a more modern NBA center that can stretch the floor and be an outside threat to create spacing.
We need a true PG that can orchestrate an offense. A Haliburton/CP3 ca 2010’s type. CJ is serviceable but much better off ball. He was top 8 in both 3PA and 3P% so he should stay as is.
Sadly I think BI is the odd man out. His midrange can be great but it’s inefficient, and does little to space the floor for Z. It’s time for Trey to step up and be the man at the wing.
It was an extremely frustrating year. Zion playing all NBA level at the end of the season only to get sidelined with yet another injury, CJ and BI completely evaporating in the OKC series, JV dominating at times but then getting benched. But I’ll be back next season.
1st season: 36-46, won play-in for 8 seed, lost 2-4 to Suns. Zion missed the entire season.
2nd season: 42-40, missed playoffs. Zion played 29 games.
3rd season: 49-33, won play-in for 8 seed, lost 0-4 against OKC. Zion played 70 games.
I’m no Willie apologist and I get he has made some bone-headed moves at times. But at the same time he has experienced some success here, increasing his win total each year.
A lot of the shortcomings of this team are with personnel and execution.Willie can’t make BI play physical basketball against Dort. Willie can’t control Trey and CJ shooting like absolute dog shite for the series. Willie made adjustments to get JV more looks, but if you’re having to rely on JV to carry this team offensively against OKC you’re gong to lose.
Willie is going to get another crack at it next year like it or not and it’s probably the right call. The real question is can Griff get a workable roster that fits Willie’s/Borrego’s vision for this team.
The center position doesn’t really need upgraded because JV is damn good in his role, we just need a more modern NBA center that can stretch the floor and be an outside threat to create spacing.
We need a true PG that can orchestrate an offense. A Haliburton/CP3 ca 2010’s type. CJ is serviceable but much better off ball. He was top 8 in both 3PA and 3P% so he should stay as is.
Sadly I think BI is the odd man out. His midrange can be great but it’s inefficient, and does little to space the floor for Z. It’s time for Trey to step up and be the man at the wing.
It was an extremely frustrating year. Zion playing all NBA level at the end of the season only to get sidelined with yet another injury, CJ and BI completely evaporating in the OKC series, JV dominating at times but then getting benched. But I’ll be back next season.
7
Posted on 4/30/24 at 8:39 am to pleading the fifth
He's a nice guy and he's a great defensive coach, top 6 defense 2 years in a row is impressive with our roster. However he is an awful offensive coach with no feel for that end whatsoever. This is an offensive league, and we need an offensive mastermind to make the most out of a zion led team.
Posted on 4/30/24 at 8:42 am to pleading the fifth
quote:
But at the same time he has experienced some success here, increasing his win total each year.
the only reason why we won more games is due to Zion playing more games each season. Willie didn't improve the team, we just got more games from Z.
That Dyson isn't out there more is on Willie. Not playing a motion shooter and legit 3 level like Hawkins more and living with the results to develop him is on Willie. He's the problem
Posted on 4/30/24 at 8:43 am to pleading the fifth
0-26 when losing going into the 4th
14 losses by less than two possessions.
Do we make it out the first round if we’re 5-6 seed…maybe.
Team and coaching has plateau’d.
14 losses by less than two possessions.
Do we make it out the first round if we’re 5-6 seed…maybe.
Team and coaching has plateau’d.
Posted on 4/30/24 at 8:47 am to pleading the fifth
He’s clueless, probably personally cost the team 10 wins in the regular season with crap coaching and lineups. He’s also like 2-9 in the postseason so…
Posted on 4/30/24 at 9:32 am to pleading the fifth
Our team that can't finish games can't finish seasons. It's coaching.
quote:I noticed last that Herb might be the only one out there thinking about where other people should be. He might be our best PG.
We need a true PG that can orchestrate an offense. A Haliburton/CP3 ca 2010’s type.
Posted on 4/30/24 at 9:37 am to J_Hingle
He has done, from a record standpoint, exactly what you want from a new head coach. He has improved his record every season. However, he has shown not only that he is a terrible in game coach (0-24 when trailing in the 4th), but that any other professional coach would have this team winning 10-12 more games. This roster, with all its warts and ill fits, would be a 56-58 win team with Mike Budenholzer at the helm.
Posted on 4/30/24 at 9:38 am to saints5021
quote:Without context, this is true.
He has done, from a record standpoint, exactly what you want from a new head coach. He has improved his record every season.
But with the context of Zion's games played, you can't even use this as a judge of Willie getting better each year.
Posted on 4/30/24 at 10:04 am to pleading the fifth
This roster has one big flaw and it’s at the 5.
However a real HC should be able to work with this roster and have a 50 win season at a minimum with Zion playing 70 games.
The so called “shortcomings” are strictly on Willie refusing to play guys that are not great on defense.
If Willie played Hawk/Matt more this season, especially in the small ball lineups where Zion was the 5, we would have had at least 2-3 more wins.
It seems the average fan can see that a lineup of CJ/Hawk/Matt/Trey/Z would absolutely dominate any team that tries to play defense against them, but the HC can’t see it for some reason.
I’ve said all season, who cares if we give up 130 points when we’re scoring 140/150
However a real HC should be able to work with this roster and have a 50 win season at a minimum with Zion playing 70 games.
The so called “shortcomings” are strictly on Willie refusing to play guys that are not great on defense.
If Willie played Hawk/Matt more this season, especially in the small ball lineups where Zion was the 5, we would have had at least 2-3 more wins.
It seems the average fan can see that a lineup of CJ/Hawk/Matt/Trey/Z would absolutely dominate any team that tries to play defense against them, but the HC can’t see it for some reason.
I’ve said all season, who cares if we give up 130 points when we’re scoring 140/150
This post was edited on 4/30/24 at 10:08 am
Posted on 4/30/24 at 12:00 pm to Soggymoss
End of season interviews with griff and Willie about to be live.
Posted on 4/30/24 at 12:05 pm to pleading the fifth
Willie had flaws, but the roster let him down at crucial times.
Posted on 5/3/24 at 10:59 am to whatiknowsofar
Willie is awful at drawing up offensive plays coming out of a TO and he’s terrible at getting this team to come from behind in the 4th quarter!
Unfortunately he’s here to stay for at least 2 more years since they just extended his contract. SMH!!!!
Unfortunately he’s here to stay for at least 2 more years since they just extended his contract. SMH!!!!
Posted on 5/3/24 at 11:14 am to Gcaro76
I agree a 100% with Soggymoss, I beg and plea for the lineup you just described.
It's a dam shame to have two volume shooters like Hawkins and Ryan on the team and don't used them when the offense goes 3 to 4 minutes without a basket.
That's on Willie
It's a dam shame to have two volume shooters like Hawkins and Ryan on the team and don't used them when the offense goes 3 to 4 minutes without a basket.
That's on Willie
Posted on 5/3/24 at 6:51 pm to Earthquake
We KNOW Wilie will be on the hot seat next year. He gotta do better. Hopefully it will be addition by subtraction. I figure we lose Naji, trade BI and dont elect to resign JV, with Larry subject to inclusion in any possible trade.
So, Willie will likely have less of a chance to have baffling substition patterns. Hopefully the brass imparts on him to play Hawkins and Ryan- after his newly signed contract.
Get a PG and a center, move Trey into the starting lineup and rebuild a bench that can ACTUALLY be the best bench in ACTUAL games, not in theory.
So, Willie will likely have less of a chance to have baffling substition patterns. Hopefully the brass imparts on him to play Hawkins and Ryan- after his newly signed contract.
Get a PG and a center, move Trey into the starting lineup and rebuild a bench that can ACTUALLY be the best bench in ACTUAL games, not in theory.
Posted on 5/6/24 at 10:34 am to Soggymoss
quote:
The so called “shortcomings” are strictly on Willie refusing to play guys that are not great on defense.
You are correct when it comes to the younger players but CJ is one of the worst defenders in the league.
Willie is obviously not a good offensive mind in a league that clearly favors offense,it is very clearly time to move on.
He is also way too passive in a league that supports/caters to the outspoken. There is no reason to expect anything different from him: Zion will continue to get fouled and the coach won't stand up for the team so they will continue to get screwed by the officials. They need to move on but they won't because they are a poorly run franchise.
This post was edited on 5/6/24 at 10:38 am
Posted on 5/6/24 at 10:38 am to From Rice to Ingram
The Thunder were hunting switches to get CJ on them. Giddey was a disaster for most of this season, but it felt like anytime CJ was guarding him, Giddey got what he wanted.
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