re: Jesse Kelly with the hard truth on the GOP abortion issue

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It says nothing about a baby. Just that she will be disfigured

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It says her (word that is sometimes translated as thigh or loins) will fall out. And the poison potion is a test of infidelity, and there will be a result. You are ignoring all the context clues and choosing to believe the woman will be disfigured (her thigh will fall off, or her genitals will rot off or turn inside out or something). Ok. And the husband suspected his wife was cheating without any evidence or any reason. No pregnancy, he just suspected. Ok.

You’ll also have to completely ignore that the penalty for infidelity was death. God commanded his people to stone to death adulterers. Let’s ignore all the firstborn sacrifices and mass killing and genocide in the Bible. What else did God do besides command adulterers to be stoned to death? He also punished children who had been born because of their parent’s adultery (let’s also ignore the biblical verses that say a child will not die due to the sins of the father). David raped Bathsheba, and their firstborn son God told David he was going to kill their son, and God made him sick and suffer for 7 days, and on the 8th day he killed the baby. As punishment for his father’s actions. God had a history of killing babies for their parent’s adultery. God’s not even above the mass genocide of babies. Let’s ignore all that too.

Like so many religious types, not only will you totally ignore modern science and choose to disbelieve things - basic things - taught in elementary school, but your presuppositions and dogma cloud your brain so much that you can’t simply read the plain meaning of a text and understand it.

ETA:

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17And the priest shall take holy water in an earthenware vessel and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water.

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Why was it part of the process to add dust to the liquid poison concoction that was known to cause abortions?

But first let me show you that ingestion of poison and toxins were commonly used in ancient times to induce abortions.
Ancient Roman abortion potions

The way they worked is by having a poison or toxin at a low enough rate for the mother to survive. The baby can’t metabolize the toxins flowing through the placenta. The baby dies and is miscarried.

So why add dust from the tabernacle floor? The tabernacle floor was full of the carbon residue - the ashes - of burnt offerings. Mixing enough carbon into the potion strong enough to force an abortion could cause the carbon to absorb enough toxins for the fetus to survive. The priests were basically taking an abortion drug, mixing in a partial antidote, and giving it to the woman. With enough carbon, the mother could pass the toxins with a chance of the fetus surviving. Then they could say “the LORD intervened! The woman is innocent!”

Credit to Jason @ Dragons in Genesis podcast for pointing out the carbon absorption of the toxins.

Women are an absolute gift to men, but they should not be allowed to vote or hold public office.

Fight me.

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That depends on how you perceive certain doomsday scenarios.

Most Evangelicals I know would wear that as a badge of honor in the face of a society filled with "people not worth saving".

I see lots of posts on here basically praying for societal collapse to "own the libs". They see it as a positive.

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My question was rhetorical. Of course when you tell someone they have a psychological disorder, they aren't going to take that as a friendly statement.

While I would be honored to suffer for Christ's sake, I am not seeking to suffer and would rather not have to. A martyr complex is properly associated with someone who focuses on themselves by bringing attention to their own suffering. The point of talking about the suffering is for their own validation. I'm certainly not doing that, as I believe the focus should always be on Jesus.

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You're making things up to create negativity, and you're basing this entire response on that straw man.

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I think your misuse of terms like "martyr complex" is what has made you think I've created a straw man. You act as if those who bring notice to suffering of any kind are acting out a martyr complex. There are specific connotations associated with the disorder that go beyond simply calling attention to persecution or suffering. You even use the pejorative of "virtue signaling" inappropriately in this same way.

Are you not speaking of this martyr complex as a negative thing? The context of your writings would suggest that you are. If you are, then I'm not making up anything, but responding to your consistent actions on this forum.

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It can be. There is a lot of "why" involved as well as interaction within your personal group and society at large.

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So you are now saying there are complexities involved that don't make it so black and white? You seem to be walking back that black and white distinction you were making previously.

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The perceive negativity you're projecting is based in you being in the extreme minority.

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Not at all. I'm talking about your tone and your words. As I said, I accept that this nation is lost. It's saddens me that I'm in the minority, but not because of me, but because it means that a majority are lost. I'm saddened at the delusion of so many people. However the perceived negativity I'm referring to is about your own words. You are not an objective neutral observer but are using words like "complex", "syndrome", and "virtue signaling" in a negative way. Or do you deny this?

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Any? No.

Pointless sacrifice? Yes.

The same with pointless, irrational aggression (muh fight). It's the same thing.
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Martyrdom will not solve any actual problems, also. The crucial difference is that this path never intends to solve problems. It wants to virtue signal intending to take a loss, to reinforce non-political beliefs (typically some version of "society has failed and needs to end")

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It's not pointless if it's done on principle. Here is where you are letting your presuppositions get in the way in this discussion. You are viewing this through the lens of pragmatic utilitarianism. It seems that you think that anything that doesn't provide utility is a pointless endeavor. If, therefore, you endure suffering for no tangible reason that can provide utility for yourself or others, it's not worth pursuing and is instead nothing more than virtue signaling. However, that's not what virtue signaling actually is.

Virtue signaling is the act of acting virtuous for the purpose of receiving praise from other people. Virtue signaling is what Jesus was condemning the Pharisees for when they were pretending to be religious so that they would have the respect of the people while they were dishonoring God through disobedience to His law. They merely put on a show for the sake of the people while they disregarded God, who can see their motivations.

You seem to be tying virtue signaling with utility rather than motive. If an action is does not produce results, then it should be avoided. I believe that it is virtuous to do what is right in spite of the results. If I stand by my convictions in the face of overwhelming opposition, that's actually the opposite of virtue signaling, because I'm doing what is right in spite of the rejection of my peers.

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This is a political discussion board. There are 2 discussions to be had: winning or virtue signaling (and losing).

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And here it is. You claim I am making straw men while you don't seem to understand how you are wrongly using the terms you are using.

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As I said earlier,

Most Evangelicals I know would wear that as a badge of honor in the face of a society filled with "people not worth saving".

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I don't agree that this nation isn't worth saving. It is filled with people made in the image of God who will suffer for eternity if they do not repent and honor their maker by faith in Jesus Christ's work of redemption, you included. I hope this country repents and acts rightly in accord with God's moral law. If they don't, I fear that more persecution will come for those like myself whose lifestyle and beliefs convicts them of their sin. I don't desire any persecution but it will likely increase. That isn't a martyr complex or me virtue signaling.

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Disagree. The right has given up ten football fields worth of ground over the past ten years. Half of the right doesn’t stand for anything at this point. At some point you have to dig your heels in or the entire thing goes off the cliff/becomes unrecognizable. I would argue we are already probably past that point.

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Completely agree.

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I believe it is a person.

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When?

You aren't one of those "condoms are murder" weirdos are you?

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Abortions after the 2nd trimester are very rare. And then it is typically a matter of life and death for the mother( and/or little chance of a healthy being born).

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Multiple undercover videos show that late term abortions are more prevalent than you describe. Also showing that the women have no health issues and still doing so. To lie like this is evil or ignorant. Pro-life groups have infiltrated Planned Parenthood many times to prove this. Also babies are surviving births now being delivered pre-mature during the 2nd trimester.

Abortion = murder
People that support abortion = murderers/cvnts

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being pro-life doesn't mean you believe that government involvement is the answer

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each state, as defined by the Constitution should decide what they will allow and what they won't.

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State governments are governments too, or is it that they're not another fiction you tell yourself?

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Why was it part of the process to add dust to the liquid poison concoction that was known to cause abortions?

But first let me show you that ingestion of poison and toxins were commonly used in ancient times to induce abortions.
Ancient Roman abortion potions

The way they worked is by having a poison or toxin at a low enough rate for the mother to survive. The baby can’t metabolize the toxins flowing through the placenta. The baby dies and is miscarried.

So why add dust from the tabernacle floor? The tabernacle floor was full of the carbon residue - the ashes - of burnt offerings. Mixing enough carbon into the potion strong enough to force an abortion could cause the carbon to absorb enough toxins for the fetus to survive. The priests were basically taking an abortion drug, mixing in a partial antidote, and giving it to the woman. With enough carbon, the mother could pass the toxins with a chance of the fetus surviving. Then they could say “the LORD intervened! The woman is innocent!”

Credit to Jason @ Dragons in Genesis podcast for pointing out the carbon absorption of the toxins.

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Here is the problem. You are framing the entire thing around pregnancy. I am framing it around a husbands jealousy. You see the woman as the focal point of the story, I don’t. I see the husband’s being taught an important lesson here. That women are not property. The idea that only women who are pregnant are guilty of adultery is insanity. This is a process put into place to protect women from false accusations. Something completely unheard of in that era of civilization. There is explicitly a punishment of infertility, but nothing about pregnancy.

You are continuing to read this from a lens that helps your viewpoint and ignores the context of the entire book.