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re: Shogun - Official Series Discussion Thread **Spoilers**
Posted on 4/23/24 at 11:29 pm to Maytheporkbewithyou
Posted on 4/23/24 at 11:29 pm to Maytheporkbewithyou
quote:IIRC, it's the Christian lords that ally with Toranaga. In real life, the heir and his mother were confined to Osaka after 'Toranaga' became Shogun. He would later besiege Osaka and force them both to kill themselves. It makes no sense that they would ally with him.
Yes. In the book he admits his inner thoughts to himself. He explains it all. Even eliminating the heir and his mother.
1
Posted on 4/24/24 at 7:26 am to blueboy
FX would make a mint if they did a second series with the freedom to deviate from the book. Everyone loves Shogun.
I'd also accept a spinoff simply focusing on the Anjin's life wandering around Japan as framing for a period piece that explores that period of their history and specifically Edo's buildup into Tokyo.
I'd also accept a spinoff simply focusing on the Anjin's life wandering around Japan as framing for a period piece that explores that period of their history and specifically Edo's buildup into Tokyo.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 7:30 am to truthbetold
Ordered the whole Asia Saga from Thriftbooks. Looking forward to diving into the material.
This post was edited on 4/24/24 at 7:32 am
Posted on 4/24/24 at 9:30 am to truthbetold
quote:
FX would make a mint if they did a second series with the freedom to deviate from the book. Everyone loves Shogun.
No.
Just no.
With Hollywood writing and agenda in the state it's in do you really think they wouldn't frick it up?
Hmm, let's just look at some examples to support or dismantle your guess:
The Witcher - devolved from the books and turned to shite.
Wheel of Time - almost completely ignored the books
The Rings of Power - Shot all over Tolkien's world, characters, and plot
The Watchmen - what the frick even was that?
The Mandalorian - devolved in to girl power shite
Ted Lasso - devolved in to woke shite
Shall I go on?
Just be happy that 10 episodes made it safely in to the can without turning completely to shite. We dodged a bullet. Don't tempt fate.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 10:27 am to TygerTyger
A fantastic capstone to a fantastic series. I turned to my fiancé about halfway through ep.10 and said “this is a very confident finale” with how it was taking its time showing everyone’s reaction to Mariko’s sacrifice.
The show runners clearly had a vision with the greater emphasis on Mariko and Toranaga as principal characters, and through that lens, the show feels like it perfectly ended its story.
I feel like showing the Battle of Sekigahara or Toranaga’s capitulation of Osaka would have taken away from the quiet, introspective tone the show had since episode one. But also, as others have said, the book and original show also end abruptly and challenge the audience to review the actual historical context of Tokugawa Iyeasu’s shogunate.
TLDR, it’s a 9.5/10 viewing experience for me, and I’m excited to see if that ups to a 10/10 after doing a full binge rewatch.
The show runners clearly had a vision with the greater emphasis on Mariko and Toranaga as principal characters, and through that lens, the show feels like it perfectly ended its story.
I feel like showing the Battle of Sekigahara or Toranaga’s capitulation of Osaka would have taken away from the quiet, introspective tone the show had since episode one. But also, as others have said, the book and original show also end abruptly and challenge the audience to review the actual historical context of Tokugawa Iyeasu’s shogunate.
TLDR, it’s a 9.5/10 viewing experience for me, and I’m excited to see if that ups to a 10/10 after doing a full binge rewatch.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 10:45 am to gulfcoasttiger5
Really enjoyed the finale. Thought it wrapped things up well and within the tone of the show overall without hitting folks over the head with the ending.
I haven’t read the books but it’s my understanding Clavell has other books from his Asian Saga that cover different periods and characters. I wouldn’t mind seeing an adaptation of maybe other books as the natural progression of the miniseries before I would an off page continuation.
ETA: Also know I legit cried at the scene where Anjin and Fuji are sitting at the house acknowledging the open space where Mariko would have been. It such a simple scene but it hurt. That’s the beauty of this production IMO.
“No translator”
I haven’t read the books but it’s my understanding Clavell has other books from his Asian Saga that cover different periods and characters. I wouldn’t mind seeing an adaptation of maybe other books as the natural progression of the miniseries before I would an off page continuation.
ETA: Also know I legit cried at the scene where Anjin and Fuji are sitting at the house acknowledging the open space where Mariko would have been. It such a simple scene but it hurt. That’s the beauty of this production IMO.
“No translator”
This post was edited on 4/24/24 at 10:49 am
Posted on 4/24/24 at 11:18 am to TygerTyger
quote:
No. Just no. With Hollywood writing and agenda in the state it's in do you really think they wouldn't frick it up?
I agree.
I have no confidence that modern Hollywood writers could do anything but screw up any further narrative in this story.
I don’t remember much of the first series ending but after watching Ep10 thought they may have been able to have an additional episode to flesh things out further, but in hindsight this really was Mariko’s story seen through the eyes of Blackthorn. Moving on without her to see Toranagas plan through to fruition would’ve required more than an additional episode and would’ve been hollow without her.
Good work FX.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 12:06 pm to SquatchDawg
As noted by others, this was basically Mariko's story (at least, this miniseries). Amazing how there is so much universal praise for a female-centric story. It's almost as if audiences will accept and appreciate a well-written female character that is "strong" (but not a Mary Sue and has earned her "strength" through tests, trials and failures).
Posted on 4/24/24 at 12:25 pm to boomtown143
quote:shite, Shogun is not even the first time Sanada cut off his head in a movie.
he was also in Battleship
Posted on 4/24/24 at 12:27 pm to udtiger
I know…it’s so frustrating to hear modern day idiots talk like this has never been done before and that shite movies are only getting panned by viewers because they hate women.
Hell, you’d be hard pressed to find a stronger, more determined female character with an epic character arc in a movie than Scarlet OHara and that was made almost 100 years ago.
Hell, you’d be hard pressed to find a stronger, more determined female character with an epic character arc in a movie than Scarlet OHara and that was made almost 100 years ago.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 12:28 pm to blueboy
quote:
shite, Shogun is not even the first time Sanada cut off his head in a movie.
Now that’s funny. I’m sure there were some comments made by the actors about that.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 4:13 pm to SquatchDawg
I'll be stunned it there isn't a "season 2". Too much money to be made. With all of the trash out there this is actually good.
This post was edited on 4/24/24 at 4:21 pm
Posted on 4/24/24 at 9:56 pm to gulfcoasttiger5
quote:
I feel like showing the Battle of Sekigahara or Toranaga’s capitulation of Osaka would have taken away from the quiet, introspective tone the show had since episode one.
I can understand this opinion. I disagree with jt, but I appreciate the sentiment. I wanted to see the battles, the villain getting his comeuppance, the brother coming through. I wanted the fight.
Loved, loved this series overall.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 11:25 pm to dirtsandwich
quote:
can understand this opinion. I disagree with jt, but I appreciate the sentiment. I wanted to see the battles, the villain getting his comeuppance, the brother coming through. I wanted the fight
I guess it’s ok to spoiler now but the book’s finale and explanation of the finale is 2 paragraphs. A WHOLE LOT in those paragraphs but the battle and Toranaga’s victory, Ishidos demise, and outcome for Anjin were literally the last 2 paragraphs of the book.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 11:46 pm to 3nOut
Just finished.
The scenes with Anjin and Yobi’s conversations with Toranaga were both fantastic. The entire show was pretty understated but those were the top two scenes of the series back to back.
Solid top to bottom series. It should win everything.
The only thing I would have liked to see that they didn’t was Ishido buried up to his head, dying very old.
Everything from the novel was implied but that’s one thing I would have liked to have seen.
The scenes with Anjin and Yobi’s conversations with Toranaga were both fantastic. The entire show was pretty understated but those were the top two scenes of the series back to back.
Solid top to bottom series. It should win everything.
The only thing I would have liked to see that they didn’t was Ishido buried up to his head, dying very old.
Everything from the novel was implied but that’s one thing I would have liked to have seen.
This post was edited on 4/24/24 at 11:55 pm
Posted on 4/25/24 at 12:10 am to truthbetold
quote:
FX would make a mint if they did a second series with the freedom to deviate from the book. Everyone loves Shogun.
I’ve seen what happens when Hollywood tries to make up their own endings or addendums to finished properties (Rings of Power, Big Little Lies, Game of Thrones*.)
It never ends well
*obviously a giant asterisk there.
I went back and read the wiki entry on the book because it’s been a while.
Obviously Toranaga was setting things up to his own desires, but he was aiming for peace and a removal of the Portuguese influence in Japan. That obviously included using pawns as sacrificial lambs along the way.
His rise lead to what could be called a “benevolent dictatorship” and time of peace and nationalism for Japan. Hence the name Shogun. While a fictionalized version of events, Ishido was obviously the worse of two evils presented. Toranaga is mostly personified as “a unifier”. Most of History looks favorably on his character.
This post was edited on 4/25/24 at 12:19 pm
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:11 am to 3nOut
I wanted to see a battle as well but it was another amazing episode.
Mariko was def hotter, but Fuji was like a ride or die chick. Was hoping she would stay with Blackthorne
Mariko was def hotter, but Fuji was like a ride or die chick. Was hoping she would stay with Blackthorne
Posted on 4/26/24 at 3:37 pm to TygerTyger
quote:
What I took away from the final episode was that ALL of this was MAINLY due to the death/sacrafice of Mariko. NOT the huge mosaic of pieces in motion that Toranado has been moving for 50 years. JUST that Mariko was blown up.
the way i see it is that long ago, his reason for refusing to let mariko off herself was he needed her to flesh out his plan so the death she wanted so badly, was able to serve a death blow to his enemies coordinated efforts against him.
her death broke the aliance
Posted on 4/26/24 at 8:02 pm to Green Chili Tiger
this show has me wondering if there any show that covers the japanese perspective during ww2?
it would be cool if these show runners would make a follow up series based on that era
it would be cool if these show runners would make a follow up series based on that era
Posted on 4/26/24 at 8:14 pm to Boodis Man
quote:
this show has me wondering if there any show that covers the japanese perspective during ww2?
Letters from Iwo Jima is fantastic and the closest you’ll get.
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