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re: Non leftists that are Pro Palestinian
Posted on 5/18/24 at 9:20 am to TBoy
Posted on 5/18/24 at 9:20 am to TBoy
quote:
Reasonable people can disagree with Israel’s present tactics.
Only if they can offer other tactics.
This situation is shite, but it's likely the least shittiest situation that ends Hamas.
1
Posted on 5/18/24 at 9:20 am to Azkiger
quote:
I want Hamas to stop hiding behind civilians.
I want this, too, but that still doesn't condone or excuse killing innocent civilians (especially children) or forcing them out with no plan on how they will re-settle millions after the operation.
Posted on 5/18/24 at 9:21 am to Azkiger
quote:
Only if they can offer other tactics.
This qualifier is not required.
This situation is intractable and has no solution. Hamas will just be replaced by another organization, and the cycle will continue.
Posted on 5/18/24 at 9:23 am to SlowFlowPro
Israel can’t exist without a boogeyman next door, otherwise it’s harder for them to beg for welfare and military aid. Hence why Bibi nurtured the Hamas political party into power and how, beyond all reason and comprehension, the 10/7 attack somehow happened across one of the most secure borders on the planet.
Posted on 5/18/24 at 9:24 am to Bunk Moreland
quote:quote:I think quite a bit.
Is it simply contrarianism?
I can argue this the other way, though.
This made me chuckle.
Posted on 5/18/24 at 9:27 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I want this, too, but that still doesn't condone or excuse killing innocent civilians
You're purposefully leaving out lots of context.
Posted on 5/18/24 at 9:28 am to Azkiger
quote:
You're purposefully leaving out lots of context.
Nope. My point stands.
If Israel wants to go total war and kill innocents at a large scale, they have to own it and accept the labels (and potential prosecutions) that come with that.
Posted on 5/18/24 at 9:30 am to OBReb6
quote:
. I am so sick of being tied to them though
We encourage restraint.
Without that, Gaza is fricked. And rightly so.
Posted on 5/18/24 at 9:32 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
This situation is intractable and has no solution. Hamas will just be replaced by another organization, and the cycle will continue.
From what I've heard, once Israel disposes Hamas, they're not leaving. They're going to attempt to break the brainwashing that children go through in Palestine classrooms. This will be a multi generational project.
Not saying it's going to succeed, but it's at least attempting to break the cycle.
What's your suggestion?
Posted on 5/18/24 at 9:33 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Nope.
Alright.
Someone is shooting at your family while hiding behind a child.
What do you do?
Posted on 5/18/24 at 10:00 am to Seldom Seen
quote:
So you're saying it's not genocide as long as they are killing at slow enough of a rate?
Again it sounds like you're just upset about the words being used to describe Israel's actions.
Attempting to remove an entire ethnic group of people from an area of land that you would like to control. What exactly would you call that?
That word has been so loosely bantied around that it's lost it's meaning.
Genocide Definition
"Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction of a group of people because of their ethnicity, nationality, religion, or race".
None of that is happening in this war. None of it. There's no more ethnic cleansing going on here than when the United States utterly decimated Japan in both a conventional and nuclear bombing campaign, or more recently when the United States war efforts in Iraq caused the deaths of 200,000 to 300,000 people.
Defeating an enemy you're at war with does not equal genocide. Even if you were to believe the casualty number offered by the Palestinian Health Ministry (36,000). How does that possibly equal genocide? I could easily argue the number of Gazan casualties is as low as it is because Israel has shown remarkable restraint and has taken great pains to not commit genocide.
Stop misusing the word genocide. You cheapen it. It carries no more weight now than the word literally or phobia.
Posted on 5/18/24 at 10:08 am to Azkiger
quote:
"Their land" as in land they held long ago. And they're much better stewards of said land.
Oxford Academic- The Missing Link of Jewish European Ancestry: Contrasting the Rhineland and the Khazarian Hypotheses
Posted on 5/18/24 at 10:10 am to Bunk Moreland
quote:
Exactly. Greenwald posted some pics from Haaretz in February and these guys did some satellite/infrared analysis that 50% of the buildings are gone and much of the rest are damaged. Israel told people GTFO out of north, bombed the north, and is now bombing the south. Blinken said 100% of the area is facing an acute hinger crisis. Physicians working there say this is the worst shite they have ever seen, complete destruction of society and medical care. That's a systematic chokeout of a population. If kids on TikTok see this and are upset about it, good for them.
The most annoying aspect of this entire discussion is this obtuse notion that any support for the Palestinian people equals support for Hamas.
Agree with the protesters or not. It doesn't matter to me. What matters is that the vast, overwhelming majority of people who are protesting Israel's actions aren't Pro-Hamas, they know what Hamas is and they don't support their actions. They're protesting what they believe are cruel and unjust actions taken by the Israeli Government.
This post was edited on 5/18/24 at 10:11 am
Posted on 5/18/24 at 10:16 am to Azkiger
quote:
"Their land" as in land they held long ago. And they're much better stewards of said land.
The noble savage myth. Interesting. Do you do land acknowledgements with your family?
Posted on 5/18/24 at 10:18 am to Azkiger
quote:
From what I've heard, once Israel disposes Hamas, they're not leaving. They're going to attempt to break the brainwashing that children go through in Palestine classrooms. This will be a multi generational project.
Not saying it's going to succeed, but it's at least attempting to break the cycle.
What's your suggestion?
That is a good policy to pursue for Israel.
I won't comment on whether Israel is following the correct "How to do it" but IMHO, the "What Israel has the right to do" is fairly clear in my mind. Israel has the right under international law to conquer, occupy and govern Gaza under United Nations oversight.
Exactly HOW they are conquering Gaza is the bone of contention. I won't go into it. We are sitting over here without all of the relevant facts. I would say that the IDF is not following the same Targeting constraints that we follow in the US military. The Biden Admin would like Israel to follow our Targeting constraints. Israel probably has not and probably will not.
That's all I have to say about it for now.
Posted on 5/18/24 at 10:51 am to 632627
In 2006 Palestinian territories held elections. Hamas won a plurality of votes (44 percent to 41 percent) and a majority of seats (74 to 45). Hamas broke the peace, murdering opposition, and took total control of the Gaza Strip. Palestinians are accountable for voting terrorists into power. And have done nothing to stop them for an entire generation, as Hamas advocated for war time and time again.
Posted on 5/18/24 at 1:14 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:
The noble savage myth. Interesting. Do you do land acknowledgements with your family?
If Native Americans can muster the strength to take their land back, more power to them.
They're not, though, because we are better stewards of the land.
Posted on 5/18/24 at 1:15 pm to Azkiger
So you’re fine with Palestinians trying to take their land back then I guess. 
Posted on 5/18/24 at 1:18 pm to Champagne
quote:
I would say that the IDF is not following the same Targeting constraints that we follow in the US military. The Biden Admin would like Israel to follow our Targeting constraints. Israel probably has not and probably will not.
Terrorists hiding in caves is a lot easier to handle than terrorists hiding in schools and hospitals.
Waiting for there to be zero civilians in a combat zone would completely hault any IDF progress and give Hamas exactly what they want.
Under international law the deaths of civilians being forced to remain in a war zone falls on those forcing civilians to remain in said war zone.
And this makes sense. Reversing the blame incentivizes using civilians as shields.
Posted on 5/18/24 at 1:20 pm to Azkiger
This dude lives to simp for Israel on the internet
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