- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
Difference between set / rep combos
Posted on 6/18/24 at 5:28 am
Posted on 6/18/24 at 5:28 am
Was thinking about this the other day while doing a higher set lower rep combo where I was doing 5 sets of heavy 2 reps on squats and then later in the week on bench.
It got me wondering, how does your body and muscles know the difference between 5x2 and 2x5? No I’ve not hit the bong, more trying to figure out how the muscles know that you’re taking a break vs a longer set.
I’m in doing 5 sets of 2 reps, I can obviously do more weight than if I do 2 sets of 5 reps. If I were to look at the total number of reps, they’re the same so if you were to calculate total work purely from a force standpoint, the 5 sets of 2 would be superior since you can lift more weight.
Maybe it’s just too early and brain shot, but I keep wondering why we’re not all doing more low weight lifts.
It got me wondering, how does your body and muscles know the difference between 5x2 and 2x5? No I’ve not hit the bong, more trying to figure out how the muscles know that you’re taking a break vs a longer set.
I’m in doing 5 sets of 2 reps, I can obviously do more weight than if I do 2 sets of 5 reps. If I were to look at the total number of reps, they’re the same so if you were to calculate total work purely from a force standpoint, the 5 sets of 2 would be superior since you can lift more weight.
Maybe it’s just too early and brain shot, but I keep wondering why we’re not all doing more low weight lifts.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 5:34 am to NolaLovingClemsonFan
I don't know the answer, but I just watched this video from RP hypertrophy about defining training "volume," and it is pretty interesting.
LINK
LINK
Posted on 6/18/24 at 6:27 am to guedeaux
I second guedeaux, not saying he's the best or the only, but Dr. Mike has probably answered that question better than I can.
But, (am I'm not sure you realize what you've done here), your question is THE $64,000 question, and there's a whole lotta people with a whole lotta different answers for you, but it is a fascinating topic. My takeaway from the whole discussion is that "It Depends"....what are you goals and what are trying to do? There's no one right answer for everybody that will work every time.
I've always been one to answer those kinds of questions by myself through my training. I think of my training sessions like little research sessions, I collect data, track changes and progress, and try to make sense of it all. Of course, I also like to read actual studies where people smarter than me (hopefully) put intelligently designed studies together and put their theories to the test so they could share their results with all of us. But making yourself into your own lab rat has always been the main motivating force behind my weight lifting.
There is a physiological answer for you question, our muscles can tell the difference, but that's a Dr. Mike question, it's over my head. I can understand it if I read it or watch someone recite it in a video, but I don't keep that kind of knowledge in my brain. I only got movie trivia from IMDB in here.
But, (am I'm not sure you realize what you've done here), your question is THE $64,000 question, and there's a whole lotta people with a whole lotta different answers for you, but it is a fascinating topic. My takeaway from the whole discussion is that "It Depends"....what are you goals and what are trying to do? There's no one right answer for everybody that will work every time.
I've always been one to answer those kinds of questions by myself through my training. I think of my training sessions like little research sessions, I collect data, track changes and progress, and try to make sense of it all. Of course, I also like to read actual studies where people smarter than me (hopefully) put intelligently designed studies together and put their theories to the test so they could share their results with all of us. But making yourself into your own lab rat has always been the main motivating force behind my weight lifting.
There is a physiological answer for you question, our muscles can tell the difference, but that's a Dr. Mike question, it's over my head. I can understand it if I read it or watch someone recite it in a video, but I don't keep that kind of knowledge in my brain. I only got movie trivia from IMDB in here.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 7:02 am to NolaLovingClemsonFan
I really think everyone responds a bit differently, and trying different programs (yet adhering to those programs) is super valuable.
I did 5 rep and lower programs for years and always sorta sucked at bench. Eventually tried a program that used more 8-12 rep sets and started getting stronger.
This is one reason I line PPSA, set/rep schemes seem pretty varied over 4wks.
I did 5 rep and lower programs for years and always sorta sucked at bench. Eventually tried a program that used more 8-12 rep sets and started getting stronger.
This is one reason I line PPSA, set/rep schemes seem pretty varied over 4wks.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 7:18 am to NolaLovingClemsonFan
it doesnt. the muscle knows load, overall volume and how close to failure you come along with the load comes progressive overload.
thats why pertaining to your question, the top lifter track overall tonnage because we just want to make sure that goes up over time in the same volume capacity.
since the research shows that only thing that matters for hypertrophy is really the last 5 reps that are closest to failure, should focus on less reps and higher weight overall.
the guy strength debates on X does a really good job of explaining and talking about lower rep sets. Mark Rippetoe does to on the importance of 5s.
i hate dr mike, even though he is smart as frick, so i tend to not recommend his stuff anymore. if you are looking at things from strictly a hypertrophy standpoint mike and paul carter are fine, but understand both are really fricking douche. Used to not be but have become so.
thats why pertaining to your question, the top lifter track overall tonnage because we just want to make sure that goes up over time in the same volume capacity.
since the research shows that only thing that matters for hypertrophy is really the last 5 reps that are closest to failure, should focus on less reps and higher weight overall.
the guy strength debates on X does a really good job of explaining and talking about lower rep sets. Mark Rippetoe does to on the importance of 5s.
i hate dr mike, even though he is smart as frick, so i tend to not recommend his stuff anymore. if you are looking at things from strictly a hypertrophy standpoint mike and paul carter are fine, but understand both are really fricking douche. Used to not be but have become so.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 8:35 am to lsu777
Also to add, Dr. Mike says anything from 5-30 reps builds comparable amounts of muscle, so do what you like. Like 777 said, it's how close to failure you are. That doesn't meant RPE 10 is superior to RPE 7, just different stress. I'm looking at a RP program right now and it increase weight/sets weekly and you go from 7 RPE to 9 RPE, then a 6 RPE deload after 6 weeks.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 9:03 am to lsu777
Paul Carter almost certainly has a personality disorder so can be a tough follow but that also drives him to be obsessive with the research and extremely knowledgeable. If you can get through the anger issues you can learn a ton. I think a lot of influencers (JPG, TNF) have basically just taken his teaching and made it less caustic.
Dr Mike seems like a classic short man syndrome a-hole
Dr Mike seems like a classic short man syndrome a-hole
Posted on 6/18/24 at 10:07 am to NolaLovingClemsonFan
quote:
It got me wondering, how does your body and muscles know the difference between 5x2 and 2x5?
It doesn’t “know” the difference. It’s an issue of endurance and force production. The more reps in a set you have, the quicker your endurance and force production dissipates. The high sets of low reps is a great way to maintain a high level of force output while maintaining the endurance needed. You can push that as high as you want. When I’m training in a concurrent style of programming, I’ll have as many as 10 sets of doubles.
quote:
Maybe it’s just too early and brain shot, but I keep wondering why we’re not all doing more low weight lifts
It depends on your goal and what your training history is. It’s not a clear cut answer. Training should be phasic. You should play around with reps and set schemes over the duration of your training blocks.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 10:11 am to NewOrleansBlend
quote:
Dr Mike seems like a classic short man syndrome a-hole
I don’t think he’s supposed to be taken seriously. Half of what he says is tongue in cheek. A lot of it is him being a count, but it’s usually to people who deserve it.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 10:13 am to LSUfan20005
quote:
I did 5 rep and lower programs for years and always sorta sucked at bench. Eventually tried a program that used more 8-12 rep sets and started getting stronger.
This is why I always say training should be phasic. Intelligent changes promote new adaptations.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 10:48 am to NewOrleansBlend
quote:
Paul Carter almost certainly has a personality disorder so can be a tough follow but that also drives him to be obsessive with the research and extremely knowledgeable. If you can get through the anger issues you can learn a ton. I think a lot of influencers (JPG, TNF) have basically just taken his teaching and made it less caustic.
Dr Mike seems like a classic short man syndrome a-hole
agreed. i knew paul back before his divorce back like 20 years ago on teh DC forums that skip hill owns called intense muscle. him, dante, dr scott stevenson, john meadows etc all there. Learned a ton from them and Paul was cool AF back then.
has become complete douche now. smart AF but anger issues big time
never liked Dr mike because he has a hard time understanding why anyone would train for anything but put hypertrophy and everything is looked at through that lens. He hoenstly doesnt understand why someone would not want to look like him
now personally he is fine when talking outside of lifting. Little diffferent/weird but seems like ok guy
paul is actually a really good guy, like give you his shirt off his back, in church every weekend, great dad kind of guy. but he has anger issues and infidelity issues, issues with relationships and overall taking respsobibility for anything he does wrong. 100% lacks self awareness.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 10:51 am to DeafJam73
quote:
This is why I always say training should be phasic. Intelligent changes promote new adaptations.
yea all depends on what we are talking too. if its strength...attack the weakness. if its athletic training...where does athlete fall on force velocity profile....attack the weakness to drive main KPI. if its hypertrophy, it progressive overload on lifts that provide the most stability and put you in a particularly good position to hit the target muscle with progressive tonnage being the main overall driver of hypertrophy.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 12:34 pm to lsu777
Piggybacking off of this, is there any data on which is better on the joints of an older lifter? Less volume with more weight or more volume with a lighter weight? I can see where both would have its disadvantages.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 8:12 pm to NolaLovingClemsonFan
I suppose it depends on how it’s programmed, is it 5 sets of 2 at 90% of a 1RM
Are you using this set and reps to build power?
Are you using this set and reps to build power?
Posted on 6/19/24 at 9:29 am to SquatchDawg
quote:
Piggybacking off of this, is there any data on which is better on the joints of an older lifter? Less volume with more weight or more volume with a lighter weight? I can see where both would have its disadvantages.
It comes down to proper warm up and using the appropriate loads for yourself. As we age, avoiding injury should be an equivalent (if not higher) priority to gaining/maintaining muscle mass, and only you can really tell if you are doing more harm than good.
In my 40s, 12-20 reps to or near failure per set typically gives me a good feeling of stretch, tension, and pump plus time to heal between workouts. These days, failing at 5-10 reps leaves me either sore for several days or failing to get an adequate pump during the sets.
Posted on 6/19/24 at 11:38 am to guedeaux
I agree with you on the fact that age plays a significant role here, but I think that reps don't really matter if you do them to failure or not, as long as you feel good doing them. As long as you have enough rest between sets, then it's good. I personally can even do 5-minute rests between sets.
Popular
Back to top
