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Drop sets, 3 sets of 10, 15-5-5-failure?

Posted on 4/20/25 at 12:55 pm
Posted by Bestbank Tiger
Premium Member
Member since Jan 2005
75246 posts
Posted on 4/20/25 at 12:55 pm
Which is best for building strength?
Posted by PrezCock
Florida
Member since Sep 2019
786 posts
Posted on 4/20/25 at 1:53 pm to
quote:

building strength


There's multiple ways to build strength. When first beginning strength training, pretty much any type of sets and rep ranges will work because those strength gains will be mostly due to nervous system adaptations as opposed to actual gains in muscular strength.

If you are already conditioned, then I would default to conjugate system practices and alternate between dynamic effort days and maximum effort days. Dynamic effort days (speed days) is all about acceleration. How fast you can move a submaximal load. Usually something like that would look like 10 sets of 3 reps at 45% of your 1RM for that lift. With 60 seconds or so between sets. Moving the weight as fast as you possibly can.

You can always refer to physics equation for Force. F=ma. With Force roughly being strength, mass being weight, and acceleration as speed. Of course mass isn't weight and acceleration isn't speed in this instance, but that is all semantics and it will work all the same.

The other way to build strength would be to manipulate the m in that equation. You will increase the weight on the bar. It's pretty accepted that the rep ranges to increase strength fall somewhere between 1-6 reps.

Conjugate system will alternate between those Dynamic and Maximum Effort days. I usually give myself a good 72 hours between my Dynamic Day and Maximum Effort Day to let my nervous system recover in order to get as good as a lift as possible on my max effort lift.

TLDR;
F=(mass)(acceleration)
Increase acceleration by decreasing weight and increasing speed to improve strength. See above for % and rep range example
Increase mass by increasing weight and decreasing speed to improve strength. See above for % and rep range example.

Hope this helps.
Posted by Bestbank Tiger
Premium Member
Member since Jan 2005
75246 posts
Posted on 4/20/25 at 1:56 pm to
Thanks!! I'm an absolute beginner and I've seen all three recommended.
Posted by bayoumuscle21
St. George
Member since Jan 2012
4847 posts
Posted on 4/20/25 at 10:26 pm to
I swear by reverse pyramid training. I've lifted for years in high school and college football programs with different systems, be the 10,5,3,1 or sets of 5 or sets of 3 and etc. And it's by far my favorite fwiw.
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
34608 posts
Posted on 4/21/25 at 8:02 am to
quote:


Thanks!! I'm an absolute beginner and I've seen all three recommended.


if you are a beginner than follow a beginner linear progression program so one of the following

5x5
3x5
2x5,1x5+
or reverse pyramid training


i would recommend you look at the greyskull thread on here and running one of 3 programs

1) greyskull lp (my #1)
2) starting strength
3) Stronglifts
4) 531 beginner prep school (my #2)
5) Kinobody Greek god program (my #3 if using original A/B split)


as far as what you listed as best for strength, neither really. would rather see 10 sets of 3 than 3 sets of 10.


Posted by ronricks
Member since Mar 2021
9632 posts
Posted on 4/21/25 at 8:59 am to
quote:

I swear by reverse pyramid training.


I've never tried it but have thought about it. I spoke with the wrestler Lex Luger about this once as its how he trained. I assume like anything else it will work for some people better than others.
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
34608 posts
Posted on 4/21/25 at 9:38 am to
quote:

I've never tried it but have thought about it. I spoke with the wrestler Lex Luger about this once as its how he trained. I assume like anything else it will work for some people better than others.


have you read Martin Berkhams write ups on it?

essentially you are doing your heaviest set first once warm. This is great for strength gains

if you do the dependent version, you are constantly striving for rep records on sets 2 and 3

overall though its just a double progression. set you first set up with a rep range...keep pushing until you hit top of range, add enough weight to put you around the bottom of the range and repeat

on 2nd and 3rd set...you remove 10-15% on each and just keep pushing to failure, trying to set rep records on each. they only go up in weight if the top set does


on the independent version, you set rep ranges for each set and you move them up independently once you get to the top of the rep range. so if you still cant do first set to the top of range, but can the 3rd, you move only the third up in range

if first does but the 2nd or 3rd doesnt, they all stay the same and push rep records until all three can at once.

the lean gains site explains both pretty well.


i really like the system but i also appreciate a system like meadows had where you are pump the muscle fill of blood and stretch it first before hitting heavy sets. this is mainly done for health.
Posted by ronricks
Member since Mar 2021
9632 posts
Posted on 4/21/25 at 10:06 am to
Its definitely interesting. I've been considering trying it for 90 days to see what happens. This was 20 years ago but when I saw Luger do it he did like 315 on incline bench for 12 reps then 275 for 'x' and then 225 for 'x' and I asked him what he was doing and he told me he he trained every body part that way and it obviously worked for him.
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
34608 posts
Posted on 4/21/25 at 10:15 am to
here is martins guide to it
LINK


original article
LINK


this kind of breaks down original independent system and then his updated dependent system.
Posted by LemmyLives
Texas
Member since Mar 2019
9901 posts
Posted on 4/21/25 at 12:52 pm to
Whatever you pick to follow, give it 3-4 months of being consistent. You'll be adjusting to a new diet, new schedule, etc.

I've always liked the EliteFTS Beginner Training manual . It tells you why you're doing certain things, but it also removes guess work, just do what it says.

quote:

Increase your 1 rep max in the squat, deadlift and bench press.
Learn the proper technique for the squat, deadlift and bench press.
Build strong hamstrings, low back, and abdominals.
Learn about the dynamic and maximal effort method.
Become familiar with different exercises and become comfortable performing them.
Learn how to select exercises that are best suited for you.
Learn how to strain against maximal weights.
Learn how to set goals and work towards them.
Develop a strong work ethic and personal commitment in the weight room.
Posted by scottydoesntknow
Member since Nov 2023
7154 posts
Posted on 4/21/25 at 12:55 pm to
quote:

if you are a beginner than follow a beginner linear progression program so one of the following 5x5 3x5 2x5,1x5+ or reverse pyramid training


Second this. Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe is a great read with great beginner plan
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
34608 posts
Posted on 4/21/25 at 1:09 pm to
yea OP whatever you do.....pick something that progressively add weight in the 3-8 rep range every single time you do that exercise or adds weight weekly/biweekly. and dont pick a plan that has more than 4 days per week nor one that has more than about 5-6 exercises.


oh and make sure you are hitting the main compound lifts as a beginner like squat, deadlift, bench, overhead press, chins even glute thrust, rows, pushups, lunges, dips if you wanted to. limit the arm exercises to about one exercise for 2-3 sets per lifting day.

if you stick to that...no matter what you choose, you will be on the right path

Posted by bayoumuscle21
St. George
Member since Jan 2012
4847 posts
Posted on 4/21/25 at 5:12 pm to
quote:

I've never tried it but have thought about it. I spoke with the wrestler Lex Luger about this once as its how he trained. I assume like anything else it will work for some people better than others.


It allows you to lift heavy while fresh and go to failure, hit a good bit of reps and it's easy to track. So it worked for me.
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