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The Ladder Method

Posted on 8/2/19 at 11:41 am
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
34662 posts
Posted on 8/2/19 at 11:41 am
So this is a post I have been wanting make for a while and have posted bits and pieces in other threads.

The ladder method is one of the methods used at Greyskull, mainly to accumulate volume on bodyweight exercises while managing fatigue. What you didn't know it is also used to bring up lagging body parts and bust through plateaus.


Basically a ladder is this, using pullups for example:

1 rep
Rest 10 seconds
2 reps
Rest 15 seconds
3 reps
Rest 20 seconds
4 reps
Rest 25 seconds
5 reps
Rest 30 seconds

You would keep going on this until you fail to reach the required reps on that rung of the ladder. After that you start at 1 again.

Rest times on bodyweight exercises are what it would take for a partner to perform the exercise.

So how is it used? Well first to bring up numbers on bodyweight exercises, even weighted. For pure strength we tend to stick to 1 maybe two ladders per day. For hypertrophy 3 or 4 ladders per day.

For pushups it's 5/10/15/20 etc

When you can do 5 ladders of 5, you can move to the weighted version.

We also use this method to bring up lagging body parts and this works well.

Chest we use pushups then incline pushups then ring pushups

For shoulders we use dive bomber pushups and TRX "Y's"

For triceps we use close grip pushups and dips

For biceps we use chins or neutral grip chins

For back width we use pullups and type writer pushups

For back thickness we use feet elevated inverted or ring rows

For legs we use lunges then pistol squats for quads, hip thrusters or frog stance hip thrusters for glutes, for hamstrings we use ghd

Between this and frequency method we can bring up most body parts pretty quickly.



To bust plateaus we can use 3/2/1 ladders. Christian Thibs article on wave ladders


Articles on ladder method
LINK
LINK
LINK


JP explains the ladder method used at Greyskull on page 65


Post up your question about the method and I'll do my best to answer
Posted by DeafJam73
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
19122 posts
Posted on 8/2/19 at 12:14 pm to
I would like to implement this on pull-ups. After five, I usually fail. It’s hard for me to make gains on pullups.
Posted by Rep520
Member since Mar 2018
10476 posts
Posted on 8/2/19 at 12:18 pm to
Cluster sets have helped me with regaining bench strength after being sick. This looks like a cluster variation.

The short rests let you perform a maximal amount of reps at a fairly high intensity while fatigued. It's effective for increasing limit strength.

I've used EMOM bench singles for about a month now and have gone from failing at 235x4 to failing at 250x4.
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
34662 posts
Posted on 8/2/19 at 12:50 pm to
Emom is similar as are cluster sets/ rest pause.

But the nature of ladder sets where you are going from the hardest back to the easiest has some unique effects.

Both cluster/RP sets and ladders synaptic facilitation

LINK

But the ladder method also causes "post-tetanic potentiation” (PTP) when you go from the hardest back to the easiest set.

On normal lifts we use a ladder to drive strength performing reps with the same weight as it takes advantage of the ptp better than waves LINK

quote:

??

‹ BACK TO THE BLOG

WAVE LADDERS FOR MAXIMUM STRENGTH

Articles Strength and performance Training / 14 August, 2018 /

By Christian Thibaudeau

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HERE’S WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW…

Wave loading has problems. The heavier sets allow for a build-up of fatigue, resulting in the inability to optimally engage the nervous system in successive sets.

Combining a ladder system with wave loading is more effective as it increases the difficulty without modifying the load.

You can do as many waves as you can handle, although you must stop when you fail to hit your numbers.

Be sure to warm-up adequately so you start training with your nervous system fully primed.

I love ramping – gradually activating the nervous system with progressively heavier sets before I hit maximum performance on the last set. In the past I’ve also used wave loading a lot, which is another very effective way to boost strength.

However, despite its efficacy, wave loading is a sub-optimal way to train, at least the way most people approach it. It doesn’t even take full advantage of the principle behind it, namely post-tetanic potentiation. I’ve got a better way to wave load, and it’s guaranteed to make you a lot stronger, fast.

TRADITIONAL WAVE LOADING

Wave loading is a simple loading scheme in which one “wave” has 3 progressively heavier sets with a corresponding decrease in reps.

For example, you might perform 3 reps with 300 pounds, rest 2 minutes; then 2 reps with 320 pounds, rest 2 minutes; and then 1 rep with 340 pounds before resting 2-3 minutes. That’s one wave.

If you’re able to successfully complete a wave, you move on to the next one, but it has to be slightly heavier than the preceding wave. That being said, you stop the exercise as soon as you fail to complete a set. Even if you have 1 or 2 sets left in a wave, you stop the moment you fail.

So, to recap:

Each wave is comprised of 3 sets that are progressively heavier, but use fewer reps.

After you complete a wave, you start a slightly heavier one.

If you fail to complete a set, regardless of whether it’s set 1, set 2, or set 3, you hang it up.

A 3/2/1 wave might look like this:

WAVE 1

Set 1: 3 reps at 85%
Set 2: 2 reps at 88%
Set 3: 1 rep at 92%

WAVE 2

Set 1: 3 reps at 85% + 20 pounds
Set 2: 2 reps at 88% + 20 pounds
Set 3: 1 rep at 92% + 20 pounds

WAVE 3

Set 1: 3 reps at 85% + 30 pounds
Set 2: 2 reps at 88% + 30 pounds
Set 3: 1 rep at 92% + 30 pounds

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WHAT’S THE PROBLEM?

The theory behind wave loading revolves around post-tetanic potentiation. Simply, a maximal contraction potentiates/activates the nervous system, which increases your capacity to recruit muscle fibers and produce force for roughly 3-5 minutes.

In other words, by doing a maximal or near-maximal contraction, you can do more reps or perform at a higher level on the subsequent set, provided the fatigue isn’t excessive. And wave loading takes advantage of this, just not optimally.

The problem is that the “potentiation” set comes with the heaviest set, which is performed at the end of the wave. While this maximal set effectively ramps you up for the next wave, you also accumulate fatigue, which results in failure to optimally engage the nervous system in successive waves.

LADDERS: THE NEW WAY TO POTENTIATE

Traditional ladders are another effective way to activate the nervous system. However, they accomplish this by increasing the difficulty of the sets – namely the number of reps – without modifying the load.

For example:

Set 1: 1 rep with 300 pounds
Set 2: 2 reps with 300 pounds
Set 3: 3 reps with 300 pounds
Set 4: 4 reps with 300 pounds

Etc.

I much prefer this approach. When you repeat the same weight for two sets in a row, the second set always feels easier, provided you didn’t get too fatigued from the first set.

In other words, with ladders you can gradually ramp up the intensity without gassing out, which ultimately helps you reach a higher rep peak than if you went all-out every set.

THE WAVE-LADDER

The Wave-Ladder is obviously a hybrid of the two methods. It also uses 3-set waves but instead of adding weight with each set within a wave, you add reps. When you successfully complete a wave, you start a new one with a bit more weight.

For example:

WAVE 1

Set 1: 300 pounds x 1 rep
Set 2: 300 pounds x 2 reps
Set 3: 300 pounds x 3 reps

WAVE 2

Set 1: 310 pounds x 1 rep
Set 2: 310 pounds x 2 reps
Set 3: 310 pounds x 3 reps

WAVE 3

Set 1: 320 pounds x 1 rep
Set 2: 320 pounds x 2 reps
Set 3: 320 pounds x 3 reps

The rules are the same as with regular waves: when you can successfully complete a whole wave, you start a new one with 10-20 pounds more, and when you can’t complete a set, even if the wave isn’t finished, you stop.

WHAT WEIGHT DO I USE?

Most people can use 90% of their 1RM for 3 repetitions. The first wave is fairly conservative as it’s primarily used to amp up the nervous system and warm-up the movement pattern.

As such, I recommend starting the first wave with 85% of your maximum. If you’re unsure what your maximum is, then err on the safe side. In other words, it’s better to start the first wave too light than too heavy since you can always compensate by increasing the weight appropriately for that second wave. But start too heavy and you’ve just painted yourself into a corner.

I like to use 85% for the first wave and 88% for the second wave. If that second wave felt fairly hard, I might go up to 90% for the third wave. If the second wave felt solid, I’ll attempt 92% for the third wave. Obviously, you have to be acutely aware (and brutally honest!) of your performance.





One other thing that you can do with ladders is create a 6 week block for a certain exercise that you want to push your numbers up.

Take 90% of your training max(85%) and perform 3 ladders of 3 and perform it 2-3 times a day, four to five days a week. Every week you add 5-10lbs to the bar and repeat.(10lbs for squats and deads only).

The method works and works like crazy. I am a huge proponent of wave loading but feel ladders are even better for strength. Waves, especially the 9/6/3 or 7/5/3 waves, are one of if not the best method for intermediates and advanced intermediates to advance.
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
34662 posts
Posted on 8/2/19 at 12:50 pm to
quote:

I would like to implement this on pull-ups. After five, I usually fail. It’s hard for me to make gains on pullups


Quite possibly the exercise it works best on.
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
34662 posts
Posted on 8/2/19 at 4:27 pm to
FTR o believe traditional ladders are best for stength, that is you are going up in reps as you go up rungs of the ladder and up in weight for each additional ladder and using an lp for progression is the best way to build brutal strength. Last set being a rep max.

So it might look like this

Week 1

Ladder 1
300*1
300*2
300*3

Ladder 2
310*1
310*2
310*3

Ladder 3
320*1
320*2
320*3+

Week 2

Ladder 1
310*1
310*2
310*3

Ladder 2
320*1
320*2
320*3

Ladder 3
330*1
330*2
330*3+

This is just an example and this is 1/2/3 ladders. You don't have to go up 19lbs, you can shoot for more reps on the max rep set or add a 4th ladder. Key is constant progression.

I believe 7/5/3 or 6/4/2 descending rep/ascending weight ladders are the best for hypertrophy especially when used with a clock and supersetted for with the antognist (upper body only)

Example for press and chins(bodyweight unless really strong). Sets are done every 2:30 min strictly. So press immediately to chins, rest until clock hits 2:30, clock never stops similar to EMOMs. Chins are the same number of reps as press sets of you can.


Week 1

Ladder 1
100*7
Chins
110*5
Chins
120*3
Chins

Ladder 2
110*7
Chins
120*5
Chins
130*3
Chins

Ladder 3
120*7
Chins
130*5
Chins
140*3+
Chins

Week 2
All sets go up 2.5lbs on press, chins stay just bodyweight

Hope this makes since. The defending ladder is a traditional wave to most people.
Posted by upgrade
Member since Jul 2011
13882 posts
Posted on 8/2/19 at 6:00 pm to
quote:

You would keep going on this until you fail to reach the required reps on that rung of the ladder. After that you start at 1 again.



Climb up the ladder to 5 or so, then climb back down in reverse order.

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3
4
5
4
3
2
1
Posted by Yeti_Chaser
Member since Nov 2017
9609 posts
Posted on 8/2/19 at 6:06 pm to
I just tried this on pull ups. Here's what I did. Let me know if it's right.

1 rep 
Rest 10 seconds 
2 reps 
Rest 15 seconds 
3 reps 
Rest 20 seconds 
4 reps 
Rest 25 seconds 
5 reps 
Rest 30 seconds
6 reps
Rest 35 seconds
Failed on rep 4 of my 7th set. This took me 3 mins and 20 secs so I rested for 3 mins and 20 secs and started over again at 1 rep until I failed on the 5th rep of the 5th set. Started over again at 1 rep and continued on for 5 ladders, but I only pulled off all 5 sets on the 1st ladder.
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
34662 posts
Posted on 8/2/19 at 6:23 pm to
No, climb up and then start over

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Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
34662 posts
Posted on 8/2/19 at 6:25 pm to
Correct except you only rest for about 40 seconds after your failure(always stop before absolute failure) the. Start back at 1.
Posted by Lazy But Talented
Member since Aug 2011
14858 posts
Posted on 8/2/19 at 8:50 pm to
Definitely trying this with chin-ups tomorrow.
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