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Started By
Message
What am I missing about "Breakfast at Tiffany's", isn't Holly a terrible person?
Posted on 2/4/24 at 12:23 am
Posted on 2/4/24 at 12:23 am
Preface by saying I had never seen the film until today. Yes, Hepburn is enchanting and may be the most beautiful creature ever to appear on screen in this particular film, but I could not believe the difference in the film in what I was perceiving versus its reputation.
I also get that it's a classic (mostly because of the style and art direction of the film) but from a storytelling standpoint, why am I supposed to like Holly Golightly?
I guess it's never explicitly stated in the film, but she is clearly a ultra high end prostitute, right?
She's bankrolled and protected by a Hollywood big shot (we don't know why).
She meets weekly with a mafia drug kingpin in prison, and he gives her coded messages, so she's either a mule or a key contact for the fricking NY mafia narcotics operation.
She runs away from her real family in Texas, who she is supposed to be raising a lot of children, but chose to just abandon them for what? NY social life in the 1950s/60s??
Then when tracked down by her husband, she tells him basically to kiss off snd go back to BFE because she wants to be a 'high society' girl and have fun.
All the while, she clearly knows George Leppard is madly in love with her, but flaunts how she is chasing or trying to marry millionaires at all costs. Then actually I'd about to go away to Brazil with their future president.
Besides being knockout gorgeous, what am I supposed to like about this character? And why am I supposed to sympathize with her? Hell, she even throws her damn cat out in the alley on a whim when she's done with it.
Finally, ole Paul gets her, but there's no way this girl is staying faithful to him. As soon as the next millionaire gives her a glance or calls her for her "services" she's gone.
This film is far more similar to Midnight Cowboy than some candy fluff romance like people think of it.
I also get that it's a classic (mostly because of the style and art direction of the film) but from a storytelling standpoint, why am I supposed to like Holly Golightly?
I guess it's never explicitly stated in the film, but she is clearly a ultra high end prostitute, right?
She's bankrolled and protected by a Hollywood big shot (we don't know why).
She meets weekly with a mafia drug kingpin in prison, and he gives her coded messages, so she's either a mule or a key contact for the fricking NY mafia narcotics operation.
She runs away from her real family in Texas, who she is supposed to be raising a lot of children, but chose to just abandon them for what? NY social life in the 1950s/60s??
Then when tracked down by her husband, she tells him basically to kiss off snd go back to BFE because she wants to be a 'high society' girl and have fun.
All the while, she clearly knows George Leppard is madly in love with her, but flaunts how she is chasing or trying to marry millionaires at all costs. Then actually I'd about to go away to Brazil with their future president.
Besides being knockout gorgeous, what am I supposed to like about this character? And why am I supposed to sympathize with her? Hell, she even throws her damn cat out in the alley on a whim when she's done with it.
Finally, ole Paul gets her, but there's no way this girl is staying faithful to him. As soon as the next millionaire gives her a glance or calls her for her "services" she's gone.
This film is far more similar to Midnight Cowboy than some candy fluff romance like people think of it.
This post was edited on 2/4/24 at 12:25 am
14
Posted on 2/4/24 at 1:03 am to Jack Ruby
quote:
I guess it's never explicitly stated in the film, but she is clearly a ultra high end prostitute, right?
They're both prostitutes.
quote:
All the while, she clearly knows George Leppard is madly in love with her, but flaunts how she is chasing or trying to marry millionaires at all costs.
Tik-Tok should love this movie, if they had the patience.
quote:
Finally, ole Paul gets her, but there's no way this girl is staying faithful to him. As soon as the next millionaire gives her a glance or calls her for her "services" she's gone.
Instagram should worship this movie.
Posted on 2/4/24 at 1:42 am to Jack Ruby
quote:
I guess it's never explicitly stated in the film, but she is clearly a ultra high end prostitute, right?
Capote characterized Holly as an American geisha. More of a manufactured socialite (e.g. she's a real phony) and ultra high-end entertainer of the wealthy, but not really a whore.
I read the book "5th Avenue, 5 A.M.", and IIRC, Holly was influenced a good bit by Capote's mother, who left him with relatives as a child to take off for NYC, where she remarried. He struggled with loving his mother while still feeling abandoned by her.
I think Holly is meant to be complicated; she wasn't necessarily supposed to be likeable, but still sympathetic. Audrey was basically cast by the studio to make the character more palatable for audiences.
It would've been interesting to see if Holly would be viewed differently had Marilyn Monroe been cast in the lead role, like Capote wanted.
Posted on 2/4/24 at 6:09 am to Jack Ruby
It’s great because of her. Just be happy she was on film at that point in her life so we all got to see it.
Posted on 2/4/24 at 6:41 am to Jack Ruby
Posted on 2/4/24 at 6:49 am to Jack Ruby
And I said, "What about Breakfast at Tiffany's?"
She said, "I think I remember the film
And as I recall, I think we both kinda liked it"
And I said, "Well, that's the one thing we've got"
She said, "I think I remember the film
And as I recall, I think we both kinda liked it"
And I said, "Well, that's the one thing we've got"
Posted on 2/4/24 at 7:42 am to Jack Ruby
quote:
but I could not believe the difference in the film in what I was perceiving versus its reputation.
Just remember: There are some movies you are SUPPOSED to like....this is one of them.
Yes , Hepburn is beautiful, no ,not the most beautiful woman to ever appear on screen.
Yes it's a good/great movie, but Holly is such a shtty human that it's a hard watch for some.
You're not "missing" anything, it's a movie that has been setup as a litmus for credibility.
Good/great, sure, GOAT not even close.
Posted on 2/4/24 at 8:28 am to Jack Ruby
It's because that character is sympathetic to a vast swath of the current American female demographic. It's hypergamy at warp speed.
She's a flawed character, and yet, beautiful. Much of the current America female demo sees themselves as this character, in some sense or another.
That's my 2 cents.
She's a flawed character, and yet, beautiful. Much of the current America female demo sees themselves as this character, in some sense or another.
That's my 2 cents.
Posted on 2/4/24 at 8:35 am to Champagne
quote:
She's a flawed character, and yet, beautiful.
While beautiful, Hepburns' beauty is a little over-hyped.
quote:
She's a flawed character, and yet, beautiful. Much of the current America female demo sees themselves as this character, in some sense or another.
That's my 2 cents.
You are correct.
Posted on 2/4/24 at 8:51 am to Jack Ruby
You’ve put into detail the general question I’ve been asking about this movie since I first saw it 30 years ago… why does anybody like it? It’s a good looking movie. I’ll give it that. But that’s all I got for it.
Posted on 2/4/24 at 9:21 am to oogabooga68
quote:
You are correct.
Her character is utterly and ruthlessly selfish in that she discards all of her obligations in her hypergamic quest to lead the life of an adored queen. She maintains her physical beauty and her sexual desirability despite the ugliness inside of her.
A vast swath of the American female demographic greatly empathizes with this character.
Posted on 2/4/24 at 9:28 am to oogabooga68
quote:
Just remember: There are some movies you are SUPPOSED to like....this is one of them.
I feel the same way about Catcher In The Rye.
Holden Caulfield is a piece of shite and the whole story is pablum and selfish self pity.
But some high brow academic says it's a masterpiece.
Look at the movies that are routinely up for the Oscar. Very few are great movies, but they push THE MESSAGE or check woke or artsy fartsy boxes.
Posted on 2/4/24 at 9:35 am to Jack Ruby
Holly is a charming, but somewhat shallow girl. She is not supposed to be the most admirable person. Just likeable on a personal level. Yes, she relies on the favors of men.
Posted on 2/4/24 at 10:22 am to TygerTyger
quote:
I feel the same way about Catcher In The Rye.
Holden Caulfield is a piece of shite and the whole story is pablum and selfish self pity.
But some high brow academic says it's a masterpiece.
Most adults feel this way. You can MAYBE connect to it as a teenager because teen angst and such and in your eyes everything that happens to you is the most important thing in the world.
That's why they make you read it while young. If the school system hadn't decided to make the book mandatory school curriculum, JD Salinger wouldn't have made a dime. The book is sophomoric and nothing happens.
This post was edited on 2/4/24 at 10:24 am
Posted on 2/4/24 at 11:57 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
They're both prostitutes
Well... It makes a lot more sense now why the landlord hates them then...
Posted on 2/4/24 at 12:38 pm to oogabooga68
quote:
Just remember: There are some movies you are SUPPOSED to like....this is one of them.
According to whom?
Most seem to consider this a curiosity from a bygone era featuring a great performance from one of Hollywood's most fondly remembered stars, along with some elements that have aged very poorly. Who's out there advocating for the must-see status of Breakfast at Tiffany's as a classic that you must like?
Posted on 2/4/24 at 1:12 pm to Jack Ruby
quote:She was a young girl that was married off to 70 year old Jed Clampit to take care of the kids he already had. When I say married of, I am assuming the marriage was arranged by her father. Pretty sure she says she was 14 or 15 when she married.
She runs away from her real family in Texas, who she is supposed to be raising a lot of children, but chose to just abandon them for what? NY social life in the 1950s/60s?? Then when tracked down by her husband, she tells him basically to kiss off snd go back to BFE because she wants to be a 'high society' girl and have fun.
Maybe you need to watch 1956's Baby Doll to understand that kind of marriage. Trailer on YouTube Or watch the beginning of The Color Purple. Old men always wanted young women. Some Mexican parents living illegally in the US still marry off their underage kids to grown men for financial gain.
I knew a 32 year old hottie who married a 55 year old with three kids. She wasn't married long. She figured out the only reason he married her was to take care of his kids.
This post was edited on 2/4/24 at 1:18 pm
Posted on 2/4/24 at 1:21 pm to oogabooga68
quote:
While beautiful, Hepburns' beauty is a little over-hyped.
Audrey would've agreed with you. She didn't buy into her own hype.
I can't remember her exact quote, but she once remarked her nose was too big, her ears stuck out, her teeth were crooked, and she had no tits. Her own mother called her an "ugly duckling" as a child.
Posted on 2/4/24 at 2:24 pm to Jack Ruby
I think youre missing the historical perspective. It wasnt really a top hit in 1961. Capote didnt care for Hepburns portrayal, mainly because the Golightly character was essentially his own mothers story, a woman he struggled with his love/hate for. And his mother certainly was no Hepburn. It simply wasnt the character he wrote about
And when BaT came out, Americans were watching wholesome shows: Bonanza, Andy Griffith Show, Candid Camera, My Three Sons, Lassie, Ed Sullivan, and Flintstones. Plus, its only Oscar was for the soundtrack and score, which definitely enhanced the film. It wasnt even nominated for Best picture, or Best director.
The character herself wasnt as memorable to the viewers as it was with film folks. They liked the sleazy aspects, and have pumped it ever since.
The film was viewed more out of prurient interests of the day by people that werent aware those lifestyles actually existed. Its been pushed as a 'little girl lost in the big city' story, only because the lead actress and soundtrack were so engaging at that time. But the concept of turning two prostitutes into likable characters never really materialized back then
And when BaT came out, Americans were watching wholesome shows: Bonanza, Andy Griffith Show, Candid Camera, My Three Sons, Lassie, Ed Sullivan, and Flintstones. Plus, its only Oscar was for the soundtrack and score, which definitely enhanced the film. It wasnt even nominated for Best picture, or Best director.
The character herself wasnt as memorable to the viewers as it was with film folks. They liked the sleazy aspects, and have pumped it ever since.
The film was viewed more out of prurient interests of the day by people that werent aware those lifestyles actually existed. Its been pushed as a 'little girl lost in the big city' story, only because the lead actress and soundtrack were so engaging at that time. But the concept of turning two prostitutes into likable characters never really materialized back then
Posted on 2/4/24 at 2:57 pm to chinese58
quote:
She was a young girl that was married off to 70 year old Jed Clampit to take care of the kids he already had.
This is a different interpretation of entirely and this way of looking at it helps make Holly a much more sympathetic character. I thought that she abandoned her own children. If that's not accurate, and she escaped a sort of servitude to an old man and his own kids, then the story of Holly works much better that way.
I like the story much better this way.
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