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Started By
Message
re: Vikings OT signs for $28 mill a year, 113’million for 4 years
Posted on 7/28/24 at 10:32 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 7/28/24 at 10:32 am to SlowFlowPro
Hall of Fame QBs rarely follow each other back to back on the same team. Its extremely difficult as we all know. Seems the Saints FO tried to follow the Broncos model. Great defense so grab a vet qb. It worked for them even though Manning was horrible in the playoff run but the D won it all for them anyway. Yes we are a long way from that as are most teams but I think that was in the back of their minds instead of the rebuild most of us wanted.
I don't understand debating till the cows come home a decision made two years ago. But to each their own.
I don't understand debating till the cows come home a decision made two years ago. But to each their own.
1
Posted on 7/28/24 at 1:03 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Our roster is a bigger issue keeping us from title contention than Carr is.
Agreed. But there are very few teams who just needed a plus QB to push into contention.
AFC:
Miami
Cleveland
NFC:
SF
Dallas
Detroit
that's about it.
quote:
Based on what?
based on the fact that we have NEVER been a team that held onto 37.5mil. Most teams don't unless they are outright tanking or have 0 extensions to give.
255.4mil cap space
- 5 teams have >30 mil (NE, Washington, LV, Arizona, and Detroit)
We have 10mil right now. Most teams hold onto less than 20 and even the ones that do are about to spend it on extensions too.
quote:
Why signing him was stupid. As I said above, our roster prevents us from being title contenders more than Carr does.
Lets say best case scenario, we have a repeat 2015-2017 draft class; then you end up in a situation where you're a QB away. We spent 0 picks and just cash for a 10-15 level QB while being paid 15th overall. You gotta do the other part which is build the team and strike gold.
quote:
We could deal with them a lot quicker without the albatross of Carr's contract around our necks.
Still results in then needing to replace former quality players and then finding a QB.
I wish we could somehow just say "frick the season" and dump everyone and eat all the cap, but that's not happening for a multitude of reasons.
The options are either:
1. Get the QB now and try to hold you can find the players/coaching to fit around him
2. Try to get talent and then in a few years try to find a QB
We went for Option 1. Option 2 is no less wrong, but the 37.5mil isn't preventing us from getting talent.
Posted on 7/28/24 at 1:29 pm to htran90
quote:
Agreed. But there are very few teams who just needed a plus QB to push into contention.
The question is what is the point of signing Carr if our roster is in the shape it is?
quote:
based on the fact that we have NEVER been a team that held onto 37.5mil.
We didn't have to restructure everyone (and exacerbate our cap situation) to that extent to clear that cap room. We fricked ourselves in creating the cap room to sign Carr (and it wasn't 37.5M in cap room in Y1). We could have used that room to have more cap flexibility in the future, which we need to remake our roster.
In 2023, his cap number was only $7.2M. Nowhere near 37.5M
quote:
1. Get the QB now and try to hold you can find the players/coaching to fit around him
This is all but impossible. Carr is already 33.
Posted on 7/28/24 at 3:33 pm to goatmilker
quote:
Hall of Fame QBs rarely follow each other back to back on the same team. Its extremely difficult as we all know. Seems the Saints FO tried to follow the Broncos model. Great defense so grab a vet qb. It worked for them even though Manning was horrible in the playoff run but the D won it all for them anyway. Yes we are a long way from that as are most teams but I think that was in the back of their minds instead of the rebuild most of us wanted. I don't understand debating till the cows come home a decision made two years ago. But to each their own.
Def a fair take.
Posted on 7/28/24 at 3:38 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
That was in a rebuilding year, too. Same as the Bucs last year.
I love how you pretend like the Saints, Bucs, and Packer werent all 9-8, and pretend like the Saints wouldnt have also done well in the playoffs.
Lets see if you avoid this fact for the millionth time.
Out of the 3 teams, all are paying their qb’s above 30 million.
Yet your vag is still bleeding over Carr’s contract.
Of course we’d take Mahomes for 50 mill plus or Burrow.
Theyre not available. And I’ll take Carr for mid 30’s over Trevor Lawrence/Love for mid 50’s.
You are just oblivious.
Posted on 7/28/24 at 3:39 pm to htran90
quote:
Still results in then needing to replace former quality players and then finding a QB.
FACT.
Posted on 7/28/24 at 4:05 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
The question is what is the point of signing Carr if our roster is in the shape it is?
We were a 7-10 team with a carousel of QB and poor offense.
Carried by a 9th ranked defensive in PPG
They thought they were a QB away from being able to contend.
quote:
We didn't have to restructure everyone (and exacerbate our cap situation) to that extent to clear that cap room.
We had to clear and restructure everyone REGARDLESS of Carr.
Those contracts were all designed in that way from years before; that's not on Carr's 7.2mil like you said.
quote:
We could have used that room to have more cap flexibility in the future
I get what you mean:
'24 - 12.7mil cap hit
'25 - 51.5mil cap hit
'26 - 61.5mil cap hit
Void years:
'27 - 17.2mil cap hit
'28 - 5.76mil cap hit
You had to give dennis allen a chance to succeed, if he fails this year you can bank the next 2 years will be about resetting anyway.
Next year: already a projected 90mil over.
Kamara cut/trade leading to 19mil saved, 10mil dead cap
Lattimore cut/trade leading to 10mil saved, 20mil dead cap
Ram post june 1 cut/retirement leading to 18mil saved, 10mil dead
A few restructures:
Carr being restructured clearing 30mil
Jordan being restructured clearing 10mil
McCoy being restructured clearing 4mil
Granderson being restructured clearing 5mil
Ruiz being restructured clearing 6mil
Then comes 2026 where nearly EVERYONE is a free agent for a tank if you need to.
The only thing Carr's contract did was extend this money game into the 2027 season rather than the 2026 season. We were already in a bad financial shape with the money borrowing and aging vet contracts in 2026. We just added a year to it.
quote:
This is all but impossible. Carr is already 33.
He was 32 when you signed him, giving yourself a 3 year window to fix the other issues (drafting well, quality FAs, development).
They still have 2 years left (including this year).
This post was edited on 7/28/24 at 4:08 pm
Posted on 7/28/24 at 4:39 pm to P bean
Poor rb’s are so screwed
Posted on 7/28/24 at 5:54 pm to BigTigerJoe
quote:
Really don’t care what any team pays their players. Saints fans just want a quality product on the field of play.
While I definitely agree to the last sentence, I disagree with the first. These players who keep resetting the market are going to make it harder to sign players in line with their true value.
Posted on 7/28/24 at 6:27 pm to P bean
quote:
Out of the 3 teams, all are paying their qb’s above 30 million.
Yet your vag is still bleeding over Carr’s contract.
2 of the 3 teams addressed their cap issues and bit the bullet for one year and are now clean.
We are the 3rd.
You can ignore this for the 100th time, but it's the issue with signing Carr.
Note: our cap is even more fricked now
Posted on 7/28/24 at 6:32 pm to htran90
quote:
We were a 7-10 team with a carousel of QB and poor offense.
Carried by a 9th ranked defensive in PPG
They thought they were a QB away from being able to contend.
They were smoking hopium and being irrational.
Many logical, objective posters pointed this out in real time. Some of them weren't even smart like me and Gyno
quote:
We had to clear and restructure everyone REGARDLESS of Carr.
Not to the extent to fit Carr in. That delta is affecting future caps, now, when it did nothing for the franchise positively.
quote:
Those contracts were all designed in that way from years before; that's not on Carr's 7.2mil like you said.
We did not have to restructure them to kick as much can. Our front office had the option to do so (and did). They should not have done that.
And they DEFINITELY shouldn't have exacerbated the problem they were extending by paying for a mid QB like Carr (even if his salary was market rate for mid QBs). We have kicked a TON of can down the road for the next 3 years to absorb (again, while exacerbating the other contract situations not named Carr).
quote:
You had to give dennis allen a chance to succeed,
We should have had a real search and hired a real coach, so no, we didn't have to. Again, another example of our front office smelling their own farts and leaving reality.
quote:
I get what you mean:
'24 - 12.7mil cap hit
'25 - 51.5mil cap hit
'26 - 61.5mil cap hit
Void years:
'27 - 17.2mil cap hit
'28 - 5.76mil cap hit
You can already push about 30M min from that 25 cap hit onto 26, 27, and 28, which will almost assuredly necessitate an extension to push even more down the road.
quote:
Then comes 2026 where nearly EVERYONE is a free agent for a tank if you need to.
Not when we have to extend guys just to make the cap work.
Posted on 7/28/24 at 7:01 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:quote:
Then comes 2026 where nearly EVERYONE is a free agent for a tank if you need to.
Not when we have to extend guys just to make the cap work.
I think Loomis will be knocking on the door of 70 around 2026, would be a major feat if he can have the team be 100% over the cap and he just happens to retire
Posted on 7/28/24 at 9:05 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
2 of the 3 teams addressed their cap issues and bit the bullet for one year and are now clean.
Incorrect, also made up from your dream world. Also a made up fact you’ve been called out on and conveniently ignore.
The Packers and Tampa were literally some of the worst teams in dead money last season. 1st and 3rd - highest dead money in the league.
They didnt “bite a bullet” at all.
These things cycle and are determined by multiple factors like trades, and retirements etc.
You think you have a clue but you do not. Pack/Bucs are no diff then the Saints, high cap hits come from time to time for all teams no one stays clean. Saints also had a high cap last year. Butttttt we’re dumb and theyre “rebuilding.” Righhtt. Sure buddy.
And also good players get paid.
I.E. Baker earned himself 30 plus mill.
Now tell me how its better for the 9-8 jaguars to be paying Lawrence 55million? (Which you also keep ignoring) Or GB also 9-8 givning same to Love (who Iike but he has one good season)?
Carr for mid 30’s is a bargain for any roster, there’s a reason the Jets almost got him over us etc.
This post was edited on 7/28/24 at 9:19 pm
Posted on 7/28/24 at 9:13 pm to htran90
quote:
He was 32 when you signed him, giving yourself a 3 year window to fix the other issues (drafting well, quality FAs, development). They still have 2 years left (including this year).
Most logical take. And insisting the price for him is too high is retarded.
quote:
Then comes 2026 where nearly EVERYONE is a free agent for a tank if you need to.
Correct. And Rattler will have been groomed for years by Kubiak. Although I think Carr plays well in the new system.
This post was edited on 7/28/24 at 9:14 pm
Posted on 7/28/24 at 9:55 pm to P bean
You know what.
It's not worth it. You refuse to discuss this honestly
It's not worth it. You refuse to discuss this honestly
This post was edited on 7/28/24 at 10:05 pm
Posted on 7/29/24 at 9:05 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
It's not worth it. You refuse to discuss this honestly
Who? Dont act like your crap arg isnt being addressed. By everyone.
Since when can the Saints have Mahomes because we want a Super Bowl? Sure we’d pay him 55 mill. But Trevor Lawrence? No. I’ll take Carr.
Lol, talking out yourself here. You can just be honest and stop with your Carr is a bad contract take. He’s paid fairly for his worth and I’d rather him than a 55 million Trevor Lawrence. Which you keep ignoring.
Decker (OT) just resinged for 30 mill a year. Trevor Lawrence signed for 55 mill with Jags, lots of QB’s not named Burrow or Mahomes are getting BIG bucks.
The Saints rolling with Carr, (fresh off a 2021 playoff appearance where he played well against Burrow) was a fair play by the Saints, and youve consistently whined the same tune that he’s overpaid since.
Your only argument is a bad one.
And Htran has sufficiently explained to no avail.
See below.
quote:
Then comes 2026 where nearly EVERYONE is a free agent for a tank if you need to.
quote:
He was 32 when you signed him, giving yourself a 3 year window to fix the other issues (drafting well, quality FAs, development). They still have 2 years left (including this year).
quote:
You had to give dennis allen a chance to succeed, if he fails this year you can bank the next 2 years will be about resetting anyway.
Andddd we have Rattler to be groomed for a few years if needed for a reset.
I think Carr is going to play well though.
The jags/nfl can have some of these other guys for 55 mill plus not named Mahomes etc.
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