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Chf and chrome barrel

Posted on 12/29/20 at 4:11 pm
Posted by Jack Ruby
Member since Apr 2014
25213 posts
Posted on 12/29/20 at 4:11 pm

CHF barrels are basically double the price or more of nitride barrels and are made by names like FN and Daniel Defense. So, are they actually worth it or is it a sales gimmick?
This post was edited on 10/4/21 at 4:54 am
Posted by lsufan1971
Zachary
Member since Nov 2003
21302 posts
Posted on 12/29/20 at 4:19 pm to
Hammer forged barrels are known for their durability. The process in making them reduces the rifle erosion slower than other methods. They tend to be less accurate than other barrel making methods.
Posted by Clames
Member since Oct 2010
17744 posts
Posted on 12/29/20 at 4:36 pm to
quote:


CHF barrels are basically double the price or more of nitride barrels and are made by names like FN and Daniel Defense. So, are they actually worth it or is it a sales gimmick?



Think you are confusing two different technical aspects. First CHF is a production process for producing nearly finished barrels/chambers in fewer steps than traditional gun-drilling and lathe operations. It eliminates steps as the rifled barrel and chamber can be formed as the barrel blank is hammered over a mandrel in one process which means it is more cost effective for companies that can afford the equipment. That doesn't mean CHF barrels are inherently better or more/less accurate, that entirely depends on the QC of manufacturers. Nitriding is a surface treatment, like hard chroming, Parkerizing, etc. It has pros and cons like any metallurgical process. FN hammer forges barrels for defense contracts as well as their civilian products, I have a FN CHF barrel on an AR that used the same barrel blank spec'd for the M249 SAW. All that means is a slighly different alloy was used and has a thicker layer of HC, it might be a more durable barrel but also might deliver less accuracy as any kind of bore treatment introduces irregularities that can affect accuracy. Another AR of mine is a non-CHF, non-HC and it has never demonstrated issues with being consistently accurate with off-the-shelf ammo nor is it any harder to clean compared to my other AR. There is no simple or straightforward answer here, anyone who tells you a definitive simply doesn't know enough.
This post was edited on 12/29/20 at 4:37 pm
Posted by Buck_Rogers
Member since Jul 2013
1978 posts
Posted on 12/29/20 at 4:50 pm to
quote:

ex military and tactical gun shop guys all basically say, you gotta have a Hammer forged

Ironic since the military specs on the M4 and M16 requires button rifled barrels.
Posted by KemoSabe65
70605
Member since Mar 2018
5466 posts
Posted on 12/29/20 at 4:51 pm to
How do they get inside of the barrel to hammer and how big could that hammer be?
Posted by TheBoo
South to Louisiana
Member since Aug 2012
5089 posts
Posted on 12/29/20 at 4:59 pm to
quote:

ex military and tactical gun shop guys all basically say, you gotta have a Hammer forged

quote:

Ironic since the military specs on the M4 and M16 requires button rifled barrels.

That's probably why
Posted by Clames
Member since Oct 2010
17744 posts
Posted on 12/29/20 at 5:10 pm to
quote:


Ironic since the military specs on the M4 and M16 requires button rifled barrels.


FNH contract barrels are CHF except for ones they farm out. The Army did endurance testing on Colt non-cHF and FNH CHF contract M4's and both had a number of rifles fail. Colt barrels had a harder HC lining that was more uneven than FN barrels, FN's HC lining was more even but softer so the Colt barrels suffered from micro-cracking which degraded barrel life while the FN barrels simply flame-erroded at the throat and gas port faster which degraded the barrel life too.
Posted by dstone12
Texan
Member since Jan 2007
35164 posts
Posted on 12/29/20 at 5:28 pm to
Kemo

LINK
Posted by Buck_Rogers
Member since Jul 2013
1978 posts
Posted on 12/29/20 at 6:05 pm to
quote:

FNH contract barrels are CHF except for ones they farm out.

FN is required by contract to only use button broached barrels on all M16/M4 rifles contracted for the U.S. military.
Posted by KemoSabe65
70605
Member since Mar 2018
5466 posts
Posted on 12/29/20 at 6:08 pm to
Thanks
Posted by Clames
Member since Oct 2010
17744 posts
Posted on 12/29/20 at 7:00 pm to
quote:

FN is required by contract to only use button broached barrels on all M16/M4 rifles contracted for the U.S. military.



No, they are not and I can access the FOUO IS's that have research conducted by the DoD on contract-produced FNH M4's with CHF barrels. The TDP isn't an absolute law and exceptions are made.
Posted by Buck_Rogers
Member since Jul 2013
1978 posts
Posted on 12/29/20 at 7:15 pm to
They are required to follow military specifications. If they allowed the change to CHF, then an ECN would have to be approved. No such Engineering Change Notice exists. In fact if you look at the FN manufactured AR15 that uses all components of the military version (besides full-auto components) you will see that one of those components is a button rifled barrel. Not a CHF barrel.

ETA: FN 15 - Military Collector M16

Also, the type of rifling has little to do with wear, when both are chrome lined.
This post was edited on 12/29/20 at 7:21 pm
Posted by Clames
Member since Oct 2010
17744 posts
Posted on 12/29/20 at 7:59 pm to
quote:

They are required to follow military specifications.


You are hung up on something you don't understand very well. The Colt TDP has no bearing on the contract that FNH has to supply the Army with M4's, FNH probably now has its own TDP. That TDP certainly meets military specifications but those specifications are material and dimensional. Which is exactly why there are in fact CHF M4/M4A1's. Colt's TDP may indeed specify button rifled barrels, but Colt's TDP only applied when it was the sole-source for the rifles and they haven't been a major supplier to the Army since they lost the contract in 2013.
Posted by armsdealer
Member since Feb 2016
11932 posts
Posted on 12/29/20 at 8:16 pm to
Chrome lining extends the life of the barrel and makes it easier to clean. You can get chrome lined barrels that are CHF or button rifles.

You can get Chrome lined barrels just as accurate as any other method of lining a barrel, they will cost more money. Doesn't really matter, most chrome lined barrels are going to out shoot the shooter anyway.

The big advantage of chrome lining comes into play with full auto or rapid fire, where full auto can cook a non chrome lined barrel in literally seconds a chrome lined barrel holds up to sustained fire. YOU CAN STILL COOK A CHROME LINED BARREL, it just holds up substantially longer than non chrome lined barrels.

For my semi auto rifles almost all of them have chrome lined barrels. Anything else that isn't a machine gun, doesn't matter, if you aren't going to dump a mag, doesn't matter.
Posted by saintsfan1977
Arkansas, from Cajun country
Member since Jun 2010
8838 posts
Posted on 12/29/20 at 9:42 pm to
quote:

How do they get inside of the barrel to hammer and how big could that hammer be?


It's actually like 4 hammers at once and it doesnt hammer the inside. It hammers the outside with the tools inside the bore. After the hammering is done they machine the outside of the barrel to the contour.

Cut rifling is more accurate than cold hammer forged due to custom barrel makers only producing a certain amount of barrels. It's more precise. But tikka is cold hammer forged and they are accurate but they can't compete with a custom barrel.

The chrome barrels are generally used in military rifles for durability. You can get alot more rounds out of it.
Posted by Buck_Rogers
Member since Jul 2013
1978 posts
Posted on 12/29/20 at 9:43 pm to
quote:

You are hung up on something you don't understand very well. 

Wrong. I've been working with military contracts including army, navy and coastguard before you were a gleam in your daddy's eye. You can not change the specifications of ANY design contracted for the military without an ECN. FNH's Technical Data Package specifically states using button rifling. There is no ECN to change that. I also noticed you completely ignored the link to where FN states they use button rifling for their military rifles.

ETA: Milspec also requires MIL-B-11595E steel to be used in all M16/M4 barrels. FN's CHF barrels are a proprietary steel and therefore can NOT be used as it is the wrong material; and again, no ECN has been approved.
This post was edited on 12/29/20 at 10:21 pm
Posted by Jack Ruby
Member since Apr 2014
25213 posts
Posted on 12/29/20 at 10:02 pm to
If one were in the market for a chrome lined barrel, would FN be the go-to rec or does it really matter. I know Daniel Defense makes chrome lined barrels for about the same price as an FN as well as other high end brands like Noveske, the main problem at the moment seems to be actually finding them in stock.
Posted by Buck_Rogers
Member since Jul 2013
1978 posts
Posted on 12/29/20 at 10:17 pm to
Any reputable barrel maker will give you results where you won't notice the difference. If you were to burn out a barrel a thousand rounds quicker than another, the cost of a new barrel would be negligible compared to the cost of ammo you put through it.
Posted by cgrand
HAMMOND
Member since Oct 2009
43020 posts
Posted on 12/30/20 at 1:23 am to
if you shoot any corrosive ammo chrome lined is the way to go. Unless you are shooting 7.62x39 surplus though you probably will never even see much less shoot corrosive ammo so really it’s personal preference

as many have noted it’s highly unlikely the average civilian will ever shoot enough for durability to come in to play
Posted by auggie
Opelika, Alabama
Member since Aug 2013
29570 posts
Posted on 12/30/20 at 3:18 am to
All I know: The barrel on my old colt AR, is chrome magnetic particulate , it has had thousands of rounds fired through it, and is still super accurate, like brand new, maybe even better. I have never put any cheap ammo through it.
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