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Message

re: MAGA’s Tariff idea…been wanting a “consumption tax” FOREVER

Posted on 6/15/24 at 9:23 am to
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
268526 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 9:23 am to
quote:

There will be a set percentage of tax based on sales price that will be collected at closing.


Tariffs are a different animal than "fair" consumption taxes.

Posted by MemphisGuy
Member since Nov 2023
7290 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 9:23 am to
How long before this would be decried as being regressive in that the poor would be paying more as a percentage of their income than those that are less poor?
Posted by Covingtontiger77
Member since Dec 2015
10936 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 9:25 am to
quote:

And what if they're not electronic payments?



Well let’s say you pay your grass cutter in cash.

He takes the cash and then what does he do with it?

Does he take the cash home and look at it?


No, he eventually has to bug something with it.


This, ultimately the “consumption” tax catches up.


Can’t hide the money forever unless you and your family like to eat paper money.


Posted by TrueTiger
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
72232 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 9:25 am to
quote:

And when I buy something not at a store? Like FB Marketplace?

Or when I buy a house?


The FairTax doesn't tax used goods.

A new house will set you back a good bit. So buy used if you don't want the taxes.

Posted by TerryDawg03
The Deep South
Member since Dec 2012
16635 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 9:40 am to
I’m curious how foreign holders of our debt would react to this. If we tax the hell out of their exports to where we decease how much we buy from them, at what point do they dump our bonds since they wouldn’t have to worry about funding our purchases of their goods?

Just throwing the question out there. It’s what has basically kept China from dumping our debt.
Posted by Wednesday
Member since Aug 2017
16025 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 9:44 am to
I think we need federal sales taxes on any publicly traded commodity regulated by the SEC, and on consumer goods sold in interstate commerce over the internet.

That plus tariffs would basically make sure everyone paid taxes and would piss off every large bank in the country.

I just finally read End the Fed, and basically the banks are fricking evil and the reason we’re in the mess we’re in.

frick globalism.
Posted by trinidadtiger
Member since Jun 2017
14687 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 9:48 am to
quote:

The rich will celebrate the lower tax rate


Where have you been? There are no rich, they all gave their money away, Gates, Buffet, etc. gave it all away to charity. Or should I say a trust fund, where they can now spend it freely without that bothersome tax thing.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
435525 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 9:48 am to
quote:

This, ultimately the “consumption” tax catches up.

The government will do everything it can to ensure all steps are taxed
Posted by POTUS2024
Member since Nov 2022
16006 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 9:51 am to
Consumption taxes can fall under the umbrella of a tariff if specifically implemented in that format.

From Investopedia


Tariffs are used to restrict imports. Simply put, they increase the price of goods and services purchased from another country, making them less attractive to domestic consumers.
Governments impose tariffs to raise revenue, protect domestic industries, or exert political leverage over another country.
Tariffs often result in unwanted side effects, such as higher consumer prices.
Tariffs have a long and contentious history, and the debate over whether they represent good or bad policy still rages.



Consumption taxes are often levied at different rates on different commodities according to perceptions of whether a commodity is considered a necessity (such as food) or a luxury (such as jewelry).

The consumption tax is not a new idea. The U.S. government used a consumption tax for much of its history before replacing it with an income tax.

----
We now spend about $10B/yr on the IRS. Adding 87k new agents alone will add $17B in payroll for IRS. No income tax, no IRS. We can save $25B/yr. Potentially less than that if all IRS employees are retired, not fired.
For less than $1B per year you can provide money to the states for them to go about collecting and forwarding the consumption tax.

It will be far easier and cheaper to run a consumption tax system.
Income tax punishes you for saving. Consumption tax rewards you. Nothing says you have to have the same consumption tax for baby formula as jet fuel, so the idea that the poor will suffer isn't that plausible. I'd argue the rich will pay more because their lifestyles are so heavy on consumption which does not come with loopholes. You buy a vacation home and it's charged like any other home - it can't be a write-off so you can travel to it and say you're working because it's close to another office of yours. Such distinctions go away. Additionally, states are still free to implement a 'negative income' tax or other means of assisting the poor if they wish, as Milton Friedman suggested.
Posted by BCreed1
Alabama
Member since Jan 2024
2659 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 9:51 am to
quote:

The rich will celebrate the lower tax rate

The middle and lower classes will be upset at the higher tax rate


Where have I heard that before.... OH! I know. Every friggin DEMOCRAT in office.


You just can not help exposing yourself.
Posted by BCreed1
Alabama
Member since Jan 2024
2659 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 9:52 am to
quote:

Consider me always paranoid but will they eliminate cash and force the use of a digital currency in order to combat people trying to circumvent the consumption tax?


They are going to do that no matter what. That's coming.
Posted by trinidadtiger
Member since Jun 2017
14687 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 9:53 am to
Its not that hard to conceive slo pro. Most countries have a consumption tax, most states and local municipalities in the US have one, its called sales tax

The huge benefit is capturing a lot of the underground economy as well as taxing the 50 million illegals in the country. .
Posted by CastleBravo
Dallas, TX
Member since Sep 2013
182 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 9:53 am to
Consumption tax = everyone pays their fair share.
Posted by POTUS2024
Member since Nov 2022
16006 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 9:54 am to
quote:

I’m curious how foreign holders of our debt would react to this. If we tax the hell out of their exports to where we decease how much we buy from them, at what point do they dump our bonds since they wouldn’t have to worry about funding our purchases of their goods?

Just throwing the question out there. It’s what has basically kept China from dumping our debt.

This is something that Trump never thinks about. He is fixated on tariffs for some reason.
Posted by BCreed1
Alabama
Member since Jan 2024
2659 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 9:55 am to
As proven in our conversation yesterday. Your fear of massive inflation and tech nolonger being available due to price .. well.. proven wrong.
Posted by SquatchDawg
Cohutta Wilderness
Member since Sep 2012
15213 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 9:59 am to
quote:

Consumption taxes are often levied at different rates on different commodities according to perceptions of whether a commodity is considered a necessity (such as food) or a luxury (such as jewelry).



Frankly this is a major issue I have with the consumption tax. I don’t want govco deciding what I should or shouldn’t buy and adjusting the tax accordingly….which you know they will do unless this is explicitly prohibited.
Posted by BCreed1
Alabama
Member since Jan 2024
2659 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 10:02 am to
quote:

This is something that Trump never thinks about.


How do you know he doesn't? Did he say he doesn't? Or are you assuming because he does not talk about it publicly?

quote:

He is fixated on tariffs for some reason.


Good. Needs to be the primary source for the Fed Gov. The Fed Gov needs the states to FORCE an amendment called Balance Budget.



Posted by jmarto1
Houma, LA/ Las Vegas, NV
Member since Mar 2008
35238 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 10:04 am to
It won't happen and voter won't hold Trump to the fire on it
Posted by AUFANATL
Member since Dec 2007
4281 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 10:04 am to

It won't happen for the same reason social security reform won't happen.

Old, retired people vote. And they vote in large numbers at higher rates than their younger cohorts. And they vote according to their interests at higher rates than their younger cohorts. Turning the "eat supper before 5 pm" crowd against you is political suicide and both parties know it.
Posted by BCreed1
Alabama
Member since Jan 2024
2659 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 10:07 am to
quote:

It won't happen


It may not. It takes congress to pass it.

quote:

voter won't hold Trump to the fire on it


Again, just like the wall. When the American people send a mandate to DC in the form of the WH, Sen, and House, and Congress decides to go against the mandate, you blame the ones who went against it. You hold THEM to the fire.

If a President wins with a massive support for getting rid of income tax and gives the senate and house to the GOP and the house or senate blocks it... well.. That's who you blame. That's who you hold the fire to.

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