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Started By
Message
The court packing narrative is aggravating.
Posted on 10/22/20 at 4:16 pm
Posted on 10/22/20 at 4:16 pm
I try to keep a level head in politics. I use opposing views to either sharpen my views or help me better understand why exactly I do not think that way. I try to use them as a benefit to myself. That’s what free speech is all about.
Well I’m getting really really annoyed hearing the justification from Democrats about court packing. One of the senators from Maryland just said well we are only looking into reform because republicans are packing the court right now. It’s just willful ignorance and deception because they know most people won’t actually dig into the detail and the historical precedent.
Republicans have beaten to death the situations of nominations in a election year when the White House and senate are together or split. What happened in 2016 and what is happening now is completely in line with 250 years of history. There is no “unusual” gamesmanship happening. Yet the narrative is getting hammered to people that republicans are packing the court so democrats have to respond to save the republic from this sham and this political power grab.
The court had been liberal leaning for decades and now that the stars finally aligned politically for that to shift even the slightest bit and with one of the most qualified justices of all time, democrats are losing their shite over it and eventually will blow up the entire system. They will one day have both houses and the presidency again. The second that happens Puerto Rico and DC will be added as states and the number of justices will be expanded. That is going to happen. The democrats of today simply won’t let cooler heads prevail. It doesn’t matter if it’s this election or in 2, 4, 6, 8 years they will flip the board over at the first opportunity. Am I off base or is it essentially an inevitability at this point?
ETA: I can only thank the founding fathers for enshrining the electoral college in the constitution. I only wish that a previous generation had had the foresight to amend it and enshrine the justices at 9. Governmental Stability and compromise is what this nation is built on. I cannot stand power grabs for the sake of power like these ones we are seeing discussed.
Well I’m getting really really annoyed hearing the justification from Democrats about court packing. One of the senators from Maryland just said well we are only looking into reform because republicans are packing the court right now. It’s just willful ignorance and deception because they know most people won’t actually dig into the detail and the historical precedent.
Republicans have beaten to death the situations of nominations in a election year when the White House and senate are together or split. What happened in 2016 and what is happening now is completely in line with 250 years of history. There is no “unusual” gamesmanship happening. Yet the narrative is getting hammered to people that republicans are packing the court so democrats have to respond to save the republic from this sham and this political power grab.
The court had been liberal leaning for decades and now that the stars finally aligned politically for that to shift even the slightest bit and with one of the most qualified justices of all time, democrats are losing their shite over it and eventually will blow up the entire system. They will one day have both houses and the presidency again. The second that happens Puerto Rico and DC will be added as states and the number of justices will be expanded. That is going to happen. The democrats of today simply won’t let cooler heads prevail. It doesn’t matter if it’s this election or in 2, 4, 6, 8 years they will flip the board over at the first opportunity. Am I off base or is it essentially an inevitability at this point?
ETA: I can only thank the founding fathers for enshrining the electoral college in the constitution. I only wish that a previous generation had had the foresight to amend it and enshrine the justices at 9. Governmental Stability and compromise is what this nation is built on. I cannot stand power grabs for the sake of power like these ones we are seeing discussed.
This post was edited on 10/22/20 at 4:24 pm
13
Posted on 10/22/20 at 4:20 pm to jlovel7
There isn’t a reasonable person in this country who would disagree with you.
Posted on 10/22/20 at 4:20 pm to jlovel7
There are no more moderate Democrats. The party has lurched hard left. I am afraid you are absolutely correct.
Posted on 10/22/20 at 4:23 pm to jlovel7
The democratic party has been broken, either by Trump or the radicals, or possibly by both.
I would say there is a high likelihood you are seeing the end of the democratic party as we know it, I would say its already gone. Trump basically killed the republican party as well, we're just pretending it exists.
I would say there is a high likelihood you are seeing the end of the democratic party as we know it, I would say its already gone. Trump basically killed the republican party as well, we're just pretending it exists.
Posted on 10/22/20 at 4:23 pm to jlovel7
It’s because the constitution prevents dems from doing the vast majority of what they think government should do, so the only way to make it happen is to control the branch that is charged with deciding if a law is constitutional.
I’m bothered more by the fact that they’re so secretive about their plans. Why are they so scared to tell the people the truth about what they plan to do? If being honest causes you to lose an election then accept that Americans don’t want what you’re selling, no matter how great you think it is
I’m bothered more by the fact that they’re so secretive about their plans. Why are they so scared to tell the people the truth about what they plan to do? If being honest causes you to lose an election then accept that Americans don’t want what you’re selling, no matter how great you think it is
Posted on 10/22/20 at 4:24 pm to jlovel7
It takes a certain type of pathological degenerate who can so casually and convincingly lie about anything if they think it helps their agenda.
There is a real sickness with the Democratic party. It's a mental disease.
They'll do and say just about anything if it is a means to an end.
They have the same puritanical zeal as those who persecuted innocent citizens back during the Salem witch trials. And yes, they'd fit right in w/ the Nazis or the Khmer Rouge.
There is a real sickness with the Democratic party. It's a mental disease.
They'll do and say just about anything if it is a means to an end.
They have the same puritanical zeal as those who persecuted innocent citizens back during the Salem witch trials. And yes, they'd fit right in w/ the Nazis or the Khmer Rouge.
This post was edited on 10/22/20 at 4:25 pm
Posted on 10/22/20 at 4:26 pm to jlovel7
The huge problem with SCOTUS appointments is that the Republicans typically got for literalists and constitutionalists while the Democrats go for hard core lefty activist judges like RBG.
Only one side us actually trying to protect the validity of the Constitution.
Progressives would rather burn it than save it.
Only one side us actually trying to protect the validity of the Constitution.
Progressives would rather burn it than save it.
Posted on 10/22/20 at 4:26 pm to GeauxFightingTigers1
quote:
The democratic party has been broken, either by Trump or the radicals, or possibly by both.
They know they’ve thrown everything they have at Trump and he is still kicking their arse. If he wins re-election they know the next 4 years will be bloody for them
Posted on 10/22/20 at 4:26 pm to jlovel7
Court packing is as legal as what the republicans are doing.
It is a dangerous precedent and bad for the country but I would Argue ramming through a justice is as well.
One of those “elections have consequences”
Of course wouldn’t the solution be that when the republicans have the votes to shrink the court and ditch the junior justices? Edit: this would be unconstitutional as someone pointed out.
It is a dangerous precedent.
It is a dangerous precedent and bad for the country but I would Argue ramming through a justice is as well.
One of those “elections have consequences”
Of course wouldn’t the solution be that when the republicans have the votes to shrink the court and ditch the junior justices? Edit: this would be unconstitutional as someone pointed out.
It is a dangerous precedent.
This post was edited on 10/22/20 at 4:54 pm
Posted on 10/22/20 at 4:28 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
Of course wouldn’t the solution be that when the republicans have the votes to shrink the court and ditch the junior justices?
Or just add more conservative Justices to create yet a new conservative majority.
Posted on 10/22/20 at 4:32 pm to davyjones
quote:
Or just add more conservative Justices to create yet a new conservative majority.
I think the optics would be better shrinking it with the same effect.
Looking like you’re righting an alleged wrong vs just doing the same thing you ranted against.
Posted on 10/22/20 at 4:35 pm to SammyTiger
But 2016 and 2020 are not in line. It is not normal in an election year to go 9 or 10 months with a refusal to vote.
Many Republicans have said we held the senate so they can do whatever they want. Well, by that same logic, dems could hold all the branches and can do whatever they want.
I don't agree with it, but I also don't agree with what the Republicans did in 2016 or changing the rules when they got the majority either.
Many Republicans have said we held the senate so they can do whatever they want. Well, by that same logic, dems could hold all the branches and can do whatever they want.
I don't agree with it, but I also don't agree with what the Republicans did in 2016 or changing the rules when they got the majority either.
Posted on 10/22/20 at 4:37 pm to Tigers0918
quote:
Many Republicans have said we held the senate so they can do whatever they want. Well, by that same logic, dems could hold all the branches and can do whatever they want.
That’s my point exactly.
It’s all legal.
Does the public like it?
Not to mention this doesn’t just flip the court it basically entrenches a conservative court . There will likely be no flips for more liberal position. I thinknin General that’s a bad thing. 5-4 is good. 6-3 is just partisan.
Posted on 10/22/20 at 4:39 pm to SammyTiger
I think the traditional practice for reducing size of a given multi-judge federal court (circuit courts of appeals, Supreme Court) has been to provide that the subtractions occur only as a Justice/Judge either dies off or retires/resigns. In other words say the Court's at 15 Justices and new fed act passes reducing to 11. You finally achieve the 11 only after any 4 leave the Court for whatever reason, retirement etc.
Then again, while they're tailoring laws to achieve a political purpose, may as well pass one that says they can summarily dismiss the Justice(s) at will. It's all so crazy.
Then again, while they're tailoring laws to achieve a political purpose, may as well pass one that says they can summarily dismiss the Justice(s) at will. It's all so crazy.
Posted on 10/22/20 at 4:44 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
Court packing is as legal as what the republicans are doing.
It is a dangerous precedent and bad for the country but I would Argue ramming through a justice is as well.
One of those “elections have consequences”
Of course wouldn’t the solution be that when the republicans have the votes to shrink the court and ditch the junior justices?
I’m not saying it’s illegal. I’m saying it’s detrimental to the Union. Legally with enough support we could even dissolve the constitution. But I think it’d be detrimental. It’s unstable. And to me that level of instability is dangerous and hasn’t been done in over a hundred plus years if not more. At least since the 1800s right?
Secondly they aren’t ramming in anything. They’ve pointed out multiple different instances of justices being confirmed in about as much time and several in much less time. This woman is qualified. She isn’t hiding anything and so far they have found nothing incriminating against her other than her own views that they don’t like. To say this process is a sham is dishonest. There’s nothing wrong with how they’ve handled nominating and advising and consenting on ACB.
As for removing justices in the same fashion as they are added the constitution forbids it. They can’t add justices via law then strip those away via the same form of legislation. The constitution says they’re there for life. It would take an amendment to remove them once they’re confirmed. The republicans only recourse would be to further stack the court and from there it only furthers the degradation of the court.
This post was edited on 10/22/20 at 4:45 pm
Posted on 10/22/20 at 5:04 pm to jlovel7
I don't think anyone can say both 2016 and 2020 were both wrong, or both right.
If you think we should put a justice on a week or 2 before the election but think it was too close to the election to even vote on it in 2020,that is full on hypocritical. Same goes for arguing the opposite.
If you think we should put a justice on a week or 2 before the election but think it was too close to the election to even vote on it in 2020,that is full on hypocritical. Same goes for arguing the opposite.
Posted on 10/22/20 at 5:13 pm to SammyTiger
quote:There is the minor problem that the Constitution dictates lifetime sppointment .....
Of course wouldn’t the solution be that when the republicans have the votes to shrink the court and ditch the junior justices?
Posted on 10/22/20 at 5:14 pm to jlovel7
I agree with you wholeheartedly on this. I think the republicans stuck to a strategy they identified a long time ago and the democrats kept losing focus, which is why we have a decisively conservative SC.
I am incredibly disappointed with the timing of RBG's death but if the democrats try to add the number of justices to the SC I'd be more disappointed. I'd rather they focus on legislation of progressive issues rather than expecting the courts to do it for them.
I am incredibly disappointed with the timing of RBG's death but if the democrats try to add the number of justices to the SC I'd be more disappointed. I'd rather they focus on legislation of progressive issues rather than expecting the courts to do it for them.
Posted on 10/22/20 at 5:14 pm to Tigers0918
quote:
If you think we should put a justice on a week or 2 before the election but think it was too close to the election to even vote on it in 2020,that is full on hypocritical.
Would you have liked it more if they held a vote and rejected Garland? That's pretty much what they did, they just used a different process because they thought the optics would be better. I'm not sure I agree, but the end result would be the same either way.
Posted on 10/22/20 at 5:15 pm to tijervait
quote:
we have a decisively conservative SC.
on what recent issues has the court leaned conservative?
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