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re: Who should the main target be?
Posted on 5/14/24 at 11:35 am to shel311
Posted on 5/14/24 at 11:35 am to shel311
quote:
But the more I think about it, the more I think you just go out and try to get the very best player and figure out the rest after. Not saying he's perfect and doesn't have many concerns, but Trae is very clearly the best player of all the potential dudes being discussed.
Exactly. Hes an elite offensive player that is a gifted passer. I’m not his biggest fan, but he has potential to be better than BI in our situation. I just like our team maybe better than any team in the league as for as a fit for him. We have Herband DD to protect him. I think he could really unlock Zion and Trays game on the offensive end.
And we don’t lose all these games in the 4th when teams clamp down on D because we have no true point guard. He solves a lot of the main issues we have. Plus our core 4 will all be on the same time line and around the same age. Woukd be a really fun team to watch. Just need that rim protector at the 5.
This post was edited on 5/14/24 at 11:36 am
2
Posted on 5/14/24 at 11:38 am to Townedrunkard
Let's say Boston flames out again in the Finals.
Would they consider trading Brown to get off his salary? Not sure why they'd want a lesser version in Ingram though.
Would they consider trading Brown to get off his salary? Not sure why they'd want a lesser version in Ingram though.
Posted on 5/14/24 at 11:40 am to Townedrunkard
quote:
And we don’t lose all these games in the 4th when teams clamp down on D because we have no true point guard. He solves a lot of the main issues we have.
With Trae spearheading the defense, it may not matter. Can we score 130 a night?
Posted on 5/14/24 at 11:42 am to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
If you bring in Trae, you absolutely HAVE to keep Herb. That said, I don't even know if Herb is enough to make up for Trae on defense.
Well yea. I’m keeping Herb and DD, and hopefully Hawkins. CJ will be the one to go. Possibly Alvarado also if we have enough faith in DD.
Posted on 5/14/24 at 11:42 am to supe12sta12z
quote:
At the end of the day, if things don't work out, Young will still have value around the league to set up other trades.
That's not how it works. He's a borderline reclamation project as a star at this point. If he doesn't work out here, his value is going to be tanked.
Posted on 5/14/24 at 11:43 am to Galactic Inquisitor
I get your point. Defense is an issue. But kyrie and luka are bad defenders- and they’re starting in the backcourt together with a good defense. There are ways to minimize his bad defense- now will we actually do that I don’t know but its possible.
Posted on 5/14/24 at 11:44 am to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
With Trae spearheading the defense, it may not matter. Can we score 130 a night?
Last I checked, Hawks don’t have anyone as good as Herb or DD and their defensive rating was right outside middle of the pack. So explain that?
Posted on 5/14/24 at 11:44 am to Townedrunkard
quote:
Possibly Alvarado also if we have enough faith in DD.
Look, I love the way Jose plays, but he's not an integral piece on any roster in the NBA.
Posted on 5/14/24 at 11:46 am to Galactic Inquisitor
If TJ McConnel can be used effectively in the playoffs, so can Jose.
Willie is just a bad coach.
Willie is just a bad coach.
Posted on 5/14/24 at 11:48 am to ghost2most
quote:That's not really a good comparision because McConnel is just a much better version of Jose.
If TJ McConnel can be used effectively in the playoffs, so can Jose.
Posted on 5/14/24 at 11:51 am to shel311
Moving BI for us isnt just about fit, its also about cutting salary to pay Trey. I don’t know how turning BI into Young and then turning around and paying Young $40million+ a year helps that. Atlanta also wants to cut salary. I’m not sure how both teams accomplish that.
I’m surprised at how many people like Trae’s fit on this team. I get it for the most part on offense, but the defense would be a train wreck. Especially considering that we wouldn’t have the money to pay for anyone else.
I’ve said this all before but not that Young is a bad defender, it’s that he might be the worst defender in the entire league. Opponents had a 121.6 ORtg whenever he was on the court this year. That’s horrendous. That’s 2pts worse than Cam Thomas and equivalent to Jordan Poole who played with much worse defenders around him.
The Hawks have spent years trying to surround Young with defensive guys, yet have only had a defense outside of the bottom 3rd of the league once. Here is their team DRtg in the years since Young has been drafted:
28
28
18
26
22
27
You have to do so much to help him that it severely limits what schemes you can run and who you can play on that end.
I’m not going to act like he’s not a talented offensive player because he is, but he is still being overvalued on that end. He dominates the ball and wants to be THE guy. That’s the issue, you can’t run a system with him because when he plays he IS the offensive system. Some years that has meant a top 5 offense, but we would probably need to be the number 1 offense to make up for how bad we’ll be on the other end.
Im also not going to act like he’s not a talented passer, he absolutely is. But he he’s not a connective passer. What I mean is, he doesn’t get those “hockey assists” by moving the ball within a system. He will rack up assists because he doesn’t pass the ball unless it’s a pass that can get him an assist.
I just don’t see a team with Trae and Zion really going anywhere when it counts.
I’m surprised at how many people like Trae’s fit on this team. I get it for the most part on offense, but the defense would be a train wreck. Especially considering that we wouldn’t have the money to pay for anyone else.
I’ve said this all before but not that Young is a bad defender, it’s that he might be the worst defender in the entire league. Opponents had a 121.6 ORtg whenever he was on the court this year. That’s horrendous. That’s 2pts worse than Cam Thomas and equivalent to Jordan Poole who played with much worse defenders around him.
The Hawks have spent years trying to surround Young with defensive guys, yet have only had a defense outside of the bottom 3rd of the league once. Here is their team DRtg in the years since Young has been drafted:
28
28
18
26
22
27
You have to do so much to help him that it severely limits what schemes you can run and who you can play on that end.
I’m not going to act like he’s not a talented offensive player because he is, but he is still being overvalued on that end. He dominates the ball and wants to be THE guy. That’s the issue, you can’t run a system with him because when he plays he IS the offensive system. Some years that has meant a top 5 offense, but we would probably need to be the number 1 offense to make up for how bad we’ll be on the other end.
Im also not going to act like he’s not a talented passer, he absolutely is. But he he’s not a connective passer. What I mean is, he doesn’t get those “hockey assists” by moving the ball within a system. He will rack up assists because he doesn’t pass the ball unless it’s a pass that can get him an assist.
I just don’t see a team with Trae and Zion really going anywhere when it counts.
Posted on 5/14/24 at 11:54 am to Townedrunkard
quote:
Last I checked, Hawks don’t have anyone as good as Herb or DD and their defensive rating was right outside middle of the pack. So explain that?
Hawks were 27 of 30 in the league in D-rating at 118.4. That said, they are 5th in pace, which typically hurts your D-rating
I was clearly exaggerating with the 130 PPG remark, but the Hawks were demonstrably terrible on defense this year.
There is also the fact that Trae Young has a reputation as a selfish player who started pouting when Murray was brought in as an extra ball-handler/initiator. He turned into a butthurt baby in a 1A/1B scenario, but he's going to be a good teammate when he's #2? I'm not seeing the fit.
Posted on 5/14/24 at 11:56 am to Galactic Inquisitor
Trae Young isn't a reclamation project. That is just absurd. If Ingram has value after a season like this, Young will have value. His offense will always be elite. If we fail, that's an indictment of the franchise more than anything else.
Posted on 5/14/24 at 12:03 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:
Trae Young isn't a reclamation project. That is just absurd. If Ingram has value after a season like this, Young will have value. His offense will always be elite. If we fail, that's an indictment of the franchise more than anything else.
"Reclamation project as a star."
He is as tarnished as, if not more than, Brandon Ingram at this point. Hence why either of them is considered available. For all the "better fit" on the court talk, there is just as much "locker room cancer" talk around Trae.
This post was edited on 5/14/24 at 12:03 pm
Posted on 5/14/24 at 12:04 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
Not really. That's pure opinion. He's not being dumped. He's going to take a damn near star package to land him. The idea that he's some kind of broken player is hilarious.
Posted on 5/14/24 at 12:05 pm to Baron
quote:Disagree
Moving BI for us isnt just about fit, its also about cutting salary to pay Trey.
Moving BI is more so about finding a better fit.
Moving CJ should be about reallocating salary.
quote:But we already run a scheme for this very thing. And we've been a top 6 defense 2 years in a row with that scheme.
You have to do so much to help him that it severely limits what schemes you can run and who you can play on that end.
I'm not saying we can remain top 10, but if there's 1 thing we should credit Willie with, he's taken a team with 1 elite defenders and 4 below avg defenders in his starting lineup and made it a really good defense. The argument would be that maybe he can still keep us in the top 10 or top half, then the obvious improvements offensively would override that dip defensively.
Posted on 5/14/24 at 12:07 pm to Baron
quote:
I’m not going to act like he’s not a talented offensive player because he is, but he is still being overvalued on that end. He dominates the ball and wants to be THE guy. That’s the issue, you can’t run a system with him because when he plays he IS the offensive system.
Did you watch the playoffs? It’s what this team needs. I’m also still not convinced Zion is the alpha on the team everyone thinks he will be.
This post was edited on 5/14/24 at 12:08 pm
Posted on 5/14/24 at 12:08 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:
Not really. That's pure opinion. He's not being dumped. He's going to take a damn near star package to land him. The idea that he's some kind of broken player is hilarious.
And the exact same is true of BI. I've certainly never seen national or local articles asking "Are the Pelicans better without BI?" when he has gone down.
Posted on 5/14/24 at 12:23 pm to Townedrunkard
quote:
Did you watch the playoffs? It’s what this team needs. I’m also still not convinced Zion is the alpha on the team everyone thinks he will be.
That’s fair, I don’t necessarily disagree at all. I think that Trae would fix a lot of the offensive issues that we have. I just think a lot of his strengths and weaknesses overlap with Zion’s to the point that the cost to acquire and pay Trae just isn’t worth it.
Specifically, do you like point-Zion? Because if you think BI hated point-Zion, wait until we get Trae Young on the team.
Posted on 5/14/24 at 12:31 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:
Not really. That's pure opinion. He's not being dumped. He's going to take a damn near star package to land him. The idea that he's some kind of broken player is hilarious
I think you are wrong but we will see. Hes going to be devalued, but we will see what he ends up going for. I can’t see any team giving up another ‘star’ for him due to his chemistry issues, salary, and defensive issues. They will have to take another flawed player like BI as the centerpiece.
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