re: Griff started off with a roster of Zion, AD and Jrue.

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’m not arguing that he should not have traded AD. He chose the package and what team to trade him to.

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What other package did he have? Do you think the Celtics were seriously floating Tatum out there? Of course not. Also - he was not able to "choose the package and team." Anthony Davis made it abundantly clear who he was going to resign with - the lakers. This was not some spur of the moment trade involving a guy with 3 years left on his deal. This was a superstar demanding out and dictating exactly where he went.

Also, why are we pretending we didn't get a great package in return? Brandon Ingram was an all star, MIP, and very good playoff player (until this year when he was injured.) Lonzo, while he wasn't GREAT here, played well as a facilitatiing PG. He didn't buy into that role here as much as we would have liked, and we should have gotten more from him in that trade. Josh Hart played great here and got us CJ McCollum, who, despite his recent performance, is a large part of the reason we have been pretty good the last three years. Hart is now starting on a playoff team.

We then got a shite ton of picks and swaps, which with the news of Lebron likely opting out, become massive for us in the 2025 draft.

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You are missing the entire point.

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What is the point?

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The point is Griff had all three to do what he pleased with. And we are no better now than before he arrived.

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No he didn't, and this is objectively incorect. We have been in the post season three consecutive years. It sucks that we're not further down the road, but we are better than we were in 2019.

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But he was an all star and good enough to be the number 3 on a championship team.

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He was the #3 on a championship team with the best player in the NBA we didn't have that.

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’m arguing about what he had at the time in trade value. They weren’t broken down and old. Both were in their prime and top assets jeez.

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We traded Jrue Holiday for a 30 year old who was coming off two consectuive all defense seasons while putting up 15-5-5. The pelicans also received 3 unprotected first round picks, 2 picks swaps, Steven Adams, and Trey Murphy (by extension) from that deal. I would say that's great value for 30 year old Jrue Holiday. None of the picks have even happened yet There's FOUR future picks/swaps we have right now.

Jrue was also due for a big contract extension, which he received with the Bucks. What happens in a world where we give that to him and somehow also land Trey Murphy (which we wouldn't have)? Who gets the extensions? Do we let BI walk for nothing? Do we trade Zion?

You're not looking at this from every angle. You're looking at it like we just gave Jrue Holiday to the Bucks for Eric Bledsoe even though we could have gotten some 20 year old all star instead.

It was objectively a good trade. You have to take risks in the NBA. The pelicans took a risk. Giannis was rumored to want out of Milwaukee at that time. You're ignoring a multitude of factors that played a big role in all of this.

I'm frustrated with how this season ended. I do think we have the pieces needed to make a big move this summer. If we don't, then I will 100% be on board with you that Griff has been an abject failure. We have to wait and see.

Wasn’t Davis in the last year of his contract? we would have had him for 1 more year and then nothing.

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It's definitely a hugely flawed argument.

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The OP?

Which part?


Griff started with Zion, Jrue & AD. That they never played together is not relevant. Griff started with those 3 assets at his disposal. There's nothing flawed or intellectually dishonest about that.


That is a great starting point for any front office person, and any logical person would expect more than the...nothing we've accomplished in 5 seasons. In these 5 seasons, 13 of the 15 teams in the West have secured a 6 seed at least once. We're 1 of the 2 that haven't. Again, with those 3 assets as your starting point, that's a massive failure any logical or non-flawed or intellectually honest way to review it. We failed, Griff failed.

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Griff started with Zion, Jrue & AD. That they never played together is not relevant.

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So they never played or even practiced together, but you viewed them as being on the same roster?

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That is a great starting point for any front office person,

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AD was demanding a trade to basically one team. That is not a good position to be in as a GM. Much less act like it's a great starting point. His options were limited and he made about the best trade he could have possibly made. You can knock Griff for numerous things, but the Lakers trade isn't one of them. Literally everybody was happy with that trade and agreed that that was about as could as you could have ever done given the circumstances. Now we're going to pretend that it was a bad trade?

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So they never played or even practiced together, but you viewed them as being on the same roster?

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I think OP and shell are viewing them as assets on the team at the time. They’re technically not wrong.

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Literally everybody was happy with that trade and agreed that that was about as could as you could have ever done given the circumstances. Now we're going to pretend that it was a bad trade?

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Was it a good trade at the time- yes. Has it still been a good trade for us? Thats debatable. Both can be true. A trade at the time can be great but maybe in the long run it isnt as much. And yes, a GM is judged by both.

in the long run it got us a bunch of assets we wouldn’t otherwise have

what’s the alternative?

The OP seems to think it’s keep AD.

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We would have had a disgruntled AD for a year and then nothing.

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This just isn't true. He's not walking away from a super max and taking less money. We would have had to participate in any move he made, cause we were the only people that could give him the contract he wanted. We get something out of it no matter what. No team (he wanted to play for) had a max slot available too. So they needed us to participate.

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I think OP and shell are viewing them as assets on the team at the time. They’re technically not wrong.

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OP already confirmed this

Yes, he said "roster" but he also replied, correctly I might add, that it's just semantics to say they never played together. That doesn't change the fact that he started with Zion, Jrue & AD on this team as assets to work with.

And we're 1 of only 2 teams to not land a top 6 seed(ETA: in the West) in 5 years. 1 of only 4 teams to not win a playoff round.

It's been a massive failure.

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In the entire NBA? Yeah that's not accurate.

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*in the West

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No he didn't, and this is objectively incorect. We have been in the post season three consecutive years. It sucks that we're not further down the road, but we are better than we were in 2019.

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Pretty sure when the playoffs started last year, we were not in it. That’s a stretch to count play in games as making the postseason lol. And the year before the West was historically bad due to injuries from stars. We had a losing record. Not really some big success story like you claim. Any normal year, that team doesn’t sniff the playoffs….That was an extreme outlier.

Hell, we were one loss away from being home for the playoffs this year lol. And that’s with a healthy Zion all year.

Pretty disingenuous to sit here and spout this shite about this being a postseason team three years in a row.