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re: Zach Lowe & Kevin Pelton can't imagine a world where Trey isn't starting next year
Posted on 4/23/24 at 10:28 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 4/23/24 at 10:28 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Murray was literally on the block this year and got nowhere near that sort of interest. I don't even think they got offered a deferred 1 for him from the Lakers (someone can correct me).
Murray before Trae got hurt, which was the game after the ASB
21ppg, 5apg, 5rpg
Hawks were 24-32
after that, not counting the last 4 games once Trae showed up and the lost all 4:
25ppg, 9apg, 6rpg
Hawks were 12-11
There's been some renewed interest in Dejounte since the trade deadline. It is obvious to everyone he and Trae don't work well together.
1
Posted on 4/23/24 at 10:51 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
It is obvious to everyone he and Trae don't work well together.
Everyone knew this before the deadline.
The only reason Trae is on the block now is b/c Murry had such bad interest. Teams know they have leverage b/c ATL can't keep both.
Just like the Cavs are likely to get raped with Dmitch this offseason
Posted on 4/23/24 at 11:00 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:The problem is we are worse when all 3 of Zion/BI/CJ play.
You know when we are better? when BI and Zion both play
We were better when any 2 of them play compared to all 3 on the court.
We were better when any 1 of them play compared to all 3 on the court.
We were better when none of them play compared to all 3 on the court.
Posted on 4/23/24 at 11:04 am to Chalkywhite84
quote:Top 3 defensive player in the NBA who also shot 38% from 3.
I don't really get the Isaac love.
Posted on 4/23/24 at 11:04 am to Chalkywhite84
quote:
I don't really get the Isaac love.
He's one of the best defensive players in the NBA on a per minute basis. He's starting to be able to ramp up minutes as well. Oh, and he can shoot.
ETA: but also, that's the reason why the Magic won't trade him away. The Magic pretty much have their starting lineup set, outside of needing a guard. Isaac, Banchero, Wagner, Suggs is a good foundation and mix of size, defense, and shooting.
This post was edited on 4/23/24 at 11:10 am
Posted on 4/23/24 at 11:21 am to SlowFlowPro
Everyone just assumes Mitchell is going to the Knicks or Nets.
Neither of them have what the Cavs want, unless they would accept Cam Johnson and 3 1sts, or Julius Randle and 4-5 firsts.
You have an entire year to convince him to stay, and someone else is likely willing to beat Cam Johnson and 3 firsts to take the chance of convincing him to stay. OKC took the chance with Paul George, and he resigned with them.
I'd take that chance and trade him for BI. Mitchell has always performed in the playoffs, and i'd want him just for that.
I could see the Kings making a move for him, and they have better to offer than the Nets and Knicks. So do the Bulls.
I don't know how much money he leaves on the table if he doesn't sign the extension and leaves after next year for the Knicks/Nets, but he would leave money on the table, which means it's highly likely he signs an extension this offseason. If you trade for him, you likely get that extension, and then you likely have at least a year and a half wiht him before he demands a trade. Max extensions mean you aren't trade eligible for 1 full year.
Neither of them have what the Cavs want, unless they would accept Cam Johnson and 3 1sts, or Julius Randle and 4-5 firsts.
You have an entire year to convince him to stay, and someone else is likely willing to beat Cam Johnson and 3 firsts to take the chance of convincing him to stay. OKC took the chance with Paul George, and he resigned with them.
I'd take that chance and trade him for BI. Mitchell has always performed in the playoffs, and i'd want him just for that.
I could see the Kings making a move for him, and they have better to offer than the Nets and Knicks. So do the Bulls.
I don't know how much money he leaves on the table if he doesn't sign the extension and leaves after next year for the Knicks/Nets, but he would leave money on the table, which means it's highly likely he signs an extension this offseason. If you trade for him, you likely get that extension, and then you likely have at least a year and a half wiht him before he demands a trade. Max extensions mean you aren't trade eligible for 1 full year.
Posted on 4/23/24 at 11:30 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Everyone just assumes Mitchell is going to the Knicks or Nets.
I'm just assuming he is dealt b/c he's basically already demanded it and won't re-sign. He wants frick all to do with small markets now.
They are going to lose their arse on DMitch
The Bucks are in a less dire, but similar, situation with Lillard.
quote:
You have an entire year to convince him to stay
Huge risk with potentially disastrous consequences (him just leaving)
quote:
but he would leave money on the table, which means it's highly likely he signs an extension this offseason.
All indicators are he said he would not do this. Hence why everyone knows he's a dead man walking in CLE
Posted on 4/23/24 at 11:35 am to shel311
quote:
The problem is we are worse when all 3 of Zion/BI/CJ play.
We were a 55 win team when all 3 played.
They don't all have to play every minute of the game altogether.
quote:
We were better when any 2 of them play compared to all 3 on the court.
We didn't win more games in this scenario.
quote:
We were better when any 1 of them play compared to all 3 on the court.
We didn't win more games in this scenario either.
quote:
We were better when none of them play compared to all 3 on the court.
We definitetly don't win more games in this scenario.
I get what you're saying, but we were winning when all 3 were healthy.
Winning is the ultimate stat.
Would you not agree that coaching has a lot to do with the 3 of them not playing well together? And i agree BI cuases problems with the offense at times, but in what world is it smart to have BI and Zion on the court together and Zion goes to the short corner and does nothing? That happens all the time. 24 on ball screen and rolls for Zion all season.
Imagine Zion setting a screen for BI, rolls to the goal, and CJ, Trey and Herb are all on the 3 point line. Where's the stat for that play this year? When has that play ever happened? It is beyond pathetic that not a single one of us can recall that ever happening. That lineup played a grand total of 34 minutes together this year, and they were terrible. How is that possible?
Posted on 4/23/24 at 11:38 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
All indicators are he said he would not do this. Hence why everyone knows he's a dead man walking in CLE
You have to remember that the media is NY driven, so the vast majority of what you read is intended to make everyone believe he hates Cleveland and won't sign an extension, when the reality is hardly anyone ever does that and leaves money on the table.
And he may hate Cleveland, and he might not sign an extension, but just b/c the NY media says somethign doesn't mean it's remotely true.
Posted on 4/23/24 at 11:55 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:We had a -3.0 Net Rating when they were on the court together.
We were a 55 win team when all 3 played.
quote:It's just not sustainable, you won't win anything of note like that, when your best 3 players consistently lose minutes on the court together.
They don't all have to play every minute of the game altogether.
Posted on 4/23/24 at 12:06 pm to Chalkywhite84
quote:
There will be something better out there.
We say that….
I just don’t think BI’s game is that highly regarded right now.
Posted on 4/23/24 at 12:07 pm to shel311
quote:
We had a -3.0 Net Rating when they were on the court together.
And we had a the second highest NetRtg in the league at 8.0 during that timespan after christmas and before BI got hurt with our 25-12 record.
quote:
It's just not sustainable, you won't win anything of note like that, when your best 3 players consistently lose minutes on the court together.
i get it though. and it's likely why we are so terrible in the clutch.
I still think a change in offensive philosophy when all 3 are on the court would help. it makes no sense that the obvious closing 5 of CJ/BI/Herb/Trey/Zion was so terrible in their limited minutes together.
Posted on 4/23/24 at 12:07 pm to whatiknowsofar
quote:
The Pels need to just go full small ball with Z and fricking run teams off the court, especially if Trey can just wake up and play defense now. In a world where Zion and Trey play defense at a plus level, CJ/Ingram/Herb/Zion/Trey can run teams off the court, and you can always have a solid center ready to come off the bench if you need more size.
We’d certainly need that center in the west considering the competition at that position
We don’t have the level of shooters as golden state had when they changed the game going small ball. We need size.
People overthink this shite. It’s a tall man’s game. Big athletic teams win titles the vast majority of the time.
Posted on 4/23/24 at 12:16 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Kind of like how SGA and his career 3.4 3PA at 35% is obsolete? How's that working out for him?
Jamal Murray takes 6 3's a game. Those 2 extra 3's are all the difference in the world i guess. Murray takes as many mid range shots a game as BI does.
Devin Booker takes just as many mid range shots as BI.
Both Murray and Booker get to the rim about the same as BI.
All-star Paolo Banchero needs to change his game quickly b/c it's about to be obsolete with his 4.4 3PA this year at 34%.
Somehow Jimmy Butler keeps dragging teams to the finals without a 3 point shot.
Kawhi averages 4.1 3's per game for his career, never having a season over 5.
and i'm not saying BI doesn't need to take more 3's, b/c he does, but get out of here with him not having any value and his game is obsolete.
As if Jarret fricking Allen is near equal value to BI. No GM thinks that.
SGA - A flopping bitch but he gets to the line. BI doesn't.
Murray - Shoots more 3s as you said and is clutch. BI is a choker.
Booker - Not even in the same stratosphere as BI he's so much better.
Banchero - Maybe your best argument but he's already better than BI in year 2.
Jimmy Butler - Clutch
Kawhi - All NBA defender too
Bad examples IMO. I'd take every single one of those guys over BI without even thinking about it. Even old arse Butler
Posted on 4/23/24 at 12:17 pm to cas4t
Hence why I want Allen.
Murray AST would go up the minute he put on the jersey.
Murray AST would go up the minute he put on the jersey.
Posted on 4/23/24 at 12:43 pm to Townedrunkard
quote:
Cleveland trades Spyder, might view BI as a replacement to some of those points.
What is the thinking there?
Why would they want to move him?
Posted on 4/23/24 at 12:51 pm to Chalkywhite84
quote:
Why would they want to move him?
Same reason we traded AD.
Same reason there are rumblings Lillard wants out of MIL
Posted on 4/23/24 at 12:52 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Would you not agree that coaching has a lot to do with the 3 of them not playing well together? And i agree BI cuases problems with the offense at times, but in what world is it smart to have BI and Zion on the court together and Zion goes to the short corner and does nothing?
Zion cannot shoot and BI plays too slow. There is no no risk of popping, Zion's headed to the rim after the screen, so his defender can stay back in the lane. BI dribbles too much and doesn't have the first step to turn the corner after the screen to get to the rim. He ends up around the elbow, Herb's defender tags low joining Zion's defender clogging the lane. BI will more times than not just rise up from the elbow, otherwise we get a Herb 3 with his defender closing out. Also that lineup cannot rebound, has no rim protection, and too many mediocre defenders.
Things get much more interesting offensively if the ball is in Zion's hands with Trey screening the ball and CJ setting a backscreen.
This post was edited on 4/23/24 at 12:56 pm
Posted on 4/23/24 at 12:52 pm to TeddyPadillac
The case against keeping Brandon longterm is pretty straightforward;
-You can't build a contender around two stars who don't shoot 3 pointers and are, at best, average defenders;
-Brandon is due for a massive pay raise on an already expensive roster;
-Brandon has been asked repeatedly to alter his game to take more three point shots and either cannot or will not do so;
-Trey Murphy is due for a new contract soon also;
-Brandon's trade value goes down the longer you keep him and the closer his new deal gets;
-You can replace Brandon's production with a player that fits better next to Zion. For one example, Dejounte Murray averaged 22.5 points a game while shooting 46% from the floor, 36% from the arc on 7+ attempts, got 5+ boards 6+ assists + he played 78 games, is on a much cheaper deal and is a PG who is good in clutch minutes.
Brandon is a good player. But the cap room you would commit to him is better used on a player or players who fit next to Zion.
-You can't build a contender around two stars who don't shoot 3 pointers and are, at best, average defenders;
-Brandon is due for a massive pay raise on an already expensive roster;
-Brandon has been asked repeatedly to alter his game to take more three point shots and either cannot or will not do so;
-Trey Murphy is due for a new contract soon also;
-Brandon's trade value goes down the longer you keep him and the closer his new deal gets;
-You can replace Brandon's production with a player that fits better next to Zion. For one example, Dejounte Murray averaged 22.5 points a game while shooting 46% from the floor, 36% from the arc on 7+ attempts, got 5+ boards 6+ assists + he played 78 games, is on a much cheaper deal and is a PG who is good in clutch minutes.
Brandon is a good player. But the cap room you would commit to him is better used on a player or players who fit next to Zion.
Posted on 4/23/24 at 1:01 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
it makes no sense that the obvious closing 5 of CJ/BI/Herb/Trey/Zion was so terrible in their limited minutes together.
I think that Herb and especially Trey have improved their rebounding since the start of the season. That's really the key to making a small-ball lineup work. Oh, and it obviously didn't work early in the year when Zion was fat and not rebounding.
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